Long, Hot Summer '64; Episode 1

Long Hot Summer 64 the first in a series of weekly programs focusing on the summer civil rights struggle. Tonight a long hot summer 64 focuses on the recent racial demonstrations and violence in St. Augustine Florida in which a few Boston people have been beaten and jailed. Later in the program we will have reports of Bill England and Eugene Dawson both chaplains at Boston University. First WGBH FM reporter Ted Mascot in a telephone conversation recorded this afternoon talks with the Reverend C.T. Vivian director of affiliates for Dr. Martin Luther King's SCLC and comments on the arrest of Dr. King in St. Augustine this afternoon. We have received a report on the Associated Press that Dr. King was arrested today I wonder if you could give us the details on that story I didn't observe the actual arrest, but I had been observing it a few minutes prior so not much could have changed. Dr. King was arrested at the Munson Motel, Oh yes the Motel restaurant there

Yes that's right. He had gone down to request to eat and they held him at the door for some time. And the crowd formed around of just of newsmen and people that were antagonistic crowd and we observed it and I suggest he waited half an hour or so. Just about a half hour. I guess outside the Munson doorway awaiting awaiting the opportunity to eat there. And they refused him and then arrested him. Can you tell me who else was in the party with Dr. King. Yes reverend Bill Englund of Boston University was in the group I know that the Reverend Rob Abernathy who was also in the group with Dr. King. We talked with Eugene Danson earlier this morning he said he expected to be with the group as

well as Barbara Smith, also Well that's true. They're with individual groups either they broke up into 15 people were going in today and they broke up in groups of three. Oh I say so. Dr. King Mr. Abernathy and Bill Englund was in the first group along with three other people local people. And then the Reverend Eugene Dawson lead one of the group that has already gone in I guess all three groups are in by now, but I can't check that for certain. He led one of the groups and then Barbara Smith was in the third group. And they were all going to the Munson where they? Yes the were all going to the Munson and all I question the opportunity to meet there with an integrated group on an equal basis. Right and if past experience holds true you would assume that they are already in jail. Yeah. Not in the Munson. Yeah that's right thats right, yeah They believe their next meal in other in another place as guests of the county. Yes,

could you tell me uh of any other report that you would feel that would be of interest to our listeners up here in Boston about the, you got the report from last night's march. Yes, yes sir we do have that one. Uh huh What are you planning for the rest of today will be it be more sit ins or there will be a picket march today and during the day the three people will make up the sitting in for today. The three groups will make the sitting in for the day. for today. How many would you estimate might be arrested by the end of today? That's the end of it for today for arrests today, I see, uh, the 15 people. Will there be another mass march this evening? There will be another mass march tonight and I think a bus from Savannah is due in this afternoon. A bus load of people who are coming to go to jail. Anything to report on the bus loads of the nonviolent army coming from other parts of the country will be coming from Savannah Georgia

the Savannah Georgia group is in today. They have already arrived. Yes uh huh one of the groups had trouble renting a bus. You know getting a bus from a bus company. Yeah and that slow them up and so they'll be another day before they can get in. Another group is scheduled for Monday and there are some big name personalities that will be appearing this weekend and so forth. So things are developing and people will be coming and have you heard any more from your New England affiliates by any chance? Not not any more than what it was before that they are gathering support for us in many ways doing things of this nature for us. I see would this be in the form financially as well as well as people finances and people are being gathered in the New England area.

And Dr. King is made an appeal to everyone to men of conscience everywhere regardless of their organizational affiliation or anything to come in and protest the segregation and and the brutality and violence. Of this Klan type town. type. Do you have any frame information in the telegram which Dr. King sent to President Johnson yesterday posting not that I know of. It was Ted Mascot WGBH FM reporter talking with the Reverend C.T. Vivian in St. Augustine Florida. Later we received confirmation that two other Boston University chaplains were also arrested today in America's oldest city and Ted Mascot speaks with Jonathon Brown in St. Augustine. I want to get a confirmation on the arrest of Eugene Dawson and Barbara Smith both with Boston University here.

I took Dawson down myself and the report is that they are all in jail. yeah they are and Barbara Smith is in jail too. Yeah they're both in jail and Bill Englund's in jail too. Yes yes we know about Bill, they were all arrested at the Munson restaurant is that right. That's correct. Do you have any idea how long they will be staying in jail or if there will be any and if there will be a fasting program some of them independently decided to fast and the plans, I guess down here is to pack the jail so they will be in for good long time. Weren't you, have some some unfortunate experiences a few Nights ago John? Last night and the night before, yeah. Could you describe those to me. Well the first night, Bill Englund was in front of me and I was the second white in line Yes and they beat up Bill and then after they got through with him they just waited for me. And they let me go by and they hit me as I went by and

they just kept hitting me then I went down on the ground in a non violent position and they started kicking me. After a period of time probably 30 seconds I guess they just stopped. What happened the next day, that was last night we went down there and there were I'd say at least 200 policeman last night. Yes we heard that report at least 200 policeman and I uh got hit in the back of the head by a fist. Well there were policeman five yards from me and who actually saw me being hit and could have prevented it, but they didn't. Then I was taken out of the line by three policemen. And they start questioning me, asked my name and what I was doing there. And then they one of the policeman put a cattle prod in my stomach. The Associated Press reports that the four

whites were arrested as a result of last night. Yeah Dr. Englund said that three whites were arrested but they weren't for the movement, they may have been rednecks. I say John John you work down there Easter time I guess. No another boy and I from New York came down here about a month ago, we came down again we're starting a program Yes I know I know Herb and many of the people from Yale, an associate of mine and myself spent two weeks in St. Augustine, spring vacation and have a great vacation. Yes it was. Next we spoke with Dr. R. B. Hailing, a negro dentist in St. Augustine who is head of the local Southern Christian Leadership Conference there. Well how are things going down there. Oh fairly rough Ted, in spots. Dr. King and those went in today and Reverend Abernathy along with Bill Englund and the Smith young lady

and Reverand Dawson and all of that group. Yes and what will the program include future rescue. Oh yeah. I mean we have a bus load of people coming in from Savannah Georgia. We had over 100 highway patrolmen in town last night alone so they claim but yet violance was allowed to, you know, have the worst negroes were still subjected to violence. I see, were there any incidents during the evening . during the night after the you know after one o'clock I don't know about after one o'clock I know negroes, we had an automobile shot into as they were going home from a mass meeting last night. This is not unusual to have cars shot up now not in St. Augustine Ted Mascot WGBH FM reporter talking with Dr. R B Hayling in St. Augustine. This morning before the Reverends Bill Englund and Eugene Dawson were

arrested. Tom Connelly of WGBH FM spoke with them concerning the events in St. Augustine and their future plans there. The crash went down last night and got run off. They went down to watch the march you know having the night marchs and they went down and they came back and they look scared. I mean this was NBC and CBS and ABC and they had tough looking young kids for their cameraman the sort of thing they obviously had their shock troops and they were dressed like hoods try to keep you know nobody is wearing press tags or anything like that. Who ran them off or where they actually physically. Yeah what I was was one of the cameraman told me that he turned on his light and cop came up to him with the dog and branishing a club and said turn off that light. You're going to get it buddy, you get away from here WOW, and of course the ploy that the cops use is that they

say that the lights bother their dogs, which is probably not true if they are properly trained. The dogs should be trying to work under flood lights. But so they pulled out pretty fast. Now I thought that we sent six people to the hospital last night that were hit.One boy looked like he stayed overnight he had a concussion, what were they hit with Bill? Brick. Bricks? Regular red bricks. broken leg? Gene just said...here why don't you talk to Gene Dawson he was in the parade. Alright fine, hello, Gene hello sir, this is Eugene Dawson speaking, Tom Connolly here at WGBH Can I help you in any way? Yes, what happened? last night. Well as the march downtown proceeded to go around sort of the town square it's called a Slave Mart, yes, here in St. Augustine.

things were rather peaceful about first halfway around the mart how many marches were there Gene? This would probably be a little difficult to ascertain I would say about four hundred fifty four hundred fifty four hundred fifty. Quite a bit of heckling and of course the streets were filled with highway patrol men and local law enforcement personnel. Things were going along rather smoothly until about half way through and there is quite a bit of heckling. So on some of the rowdies which gathered in the park area that we were walking around and about half way around a couple of fellows jumped out on me and they knocked me on the ground and hit me with their fists. A law enforcement officer nearby came over and pulled them away, got back up really wasn't hurt a few bruises but nothing, nothing serious. Proceeded to go back in the precession and we were just about around the entire

park, mart area as its called, when suddenly without any warning at all this gang of rougheans and hoodlums I guess you might say started running towards us and hidden in the bushes they had stashed away bricks rocks, bottles and began hurling them at us well immediately the marchers went down on their hands and knees covering their heads It should remind you that in this precession were women, small children children of all ages old women and we had some white people in the percession We try to protect ourselves bricks were falling all around us. Hit one lady on her head with a big mammoth bump on her head the cops at that point rushed in and there is a lot of barking and confusion the captains of the march began to hussle us along began to run actually until we got across the street, away from the

bricks and so on that were coming down. I carried a couple little boys, another fellow and myself, carried the little fellow, I think his leg was broke and cracking when we came back later in the evening, he had it all plaster of paris , presumed something like that happen. It was just at the end of the march that all this began to happen. They say that six people were taken to the hospital but that's what Bill said, at least that, that would be a minimum. Alot of people had bumps, there was one elderly lady a white lady I forget her name but she had a mammoth, a mammoth bump. bruise, mammoth bruise about the size of a about a grapefruit on her arm where she was hit by a brick or something. I don't know if she ever went to the hospital or not but a lot of people had bumps on their heads, I would estimate they must have had gee about 400 or so...maybe not 400 but

at least 300. Two fifty to three hundred law enforcement all over the place but the strange thing that's what Dr. Martin Luther King said later in the evening how how these hoodlums and fellas managed to get in the park to be there to have all this stuff hidden away stashed away. Many of these guys are going to be aggitators and Klansman and I mean they are identifiable as being a part of the Klan down here and the law enforcement officers know this but yet they, you know, let them remain in the park, must've been, it's hard to estimate at night, must have been about gee 50 or seventy five maybe one hundred it's hard to say How about today's plans Well they are a little bit uncertain but I suspect there will be another march this evening they

feeling that continue this sort of thing in a non violent manner and to take as much punishment as they have to to get across to the world and the country that they have certain grievances. they want to publicize and willing to, ya know, shed their own blood if need be But to not to retaliate in a violent way. Part of the mess that uh ploy. A group of us will go down town, Bill Englund, myself I think we can tell you this now Will go downtown, Barbara Smith also from Boston University and uh two or three other who would fight for them. They can read about 12 0 1/2 colored and 1/2 white and Dr. King and whoever Mr. Abernathy's companion, Will go down and attempt to be served at one of the fashionable restaurants here

in St. Augustine and try to have lunch together and undoubtedly will be jailed for trespassing or they will have certain counts I suppose and will be charged for and so on. So will probably be jailed today, today. At least, this is the expectation. Tom Connelly of WGBH FM talking with the Reverends Eugene Dawson and earlier Bill England both of Boston University. This telephone conversation was recorded this morning hours before they were arrested for attempting to be served lunch at a segregated restaurant in St. Augustine. On Tuesday evening the Reverend Bill England was beaten and kicked while participating in a freedom march in St. Augustine. The next day Ted Mascot talked with Reverend England concerning his beating and other developments in that city. I want to know you know how you are and if you could describe specifically what happened to you last

night. Well sure. I was beaten up twice last night. Twice? Yeah, in two different places in the march. Can you describe specifically how these attacks took place? Yeah we were walking along silently, you know, and a group of three white men stepped out in from of me and started to hit me and knocked me down and then they kicked me about 10 or 15 times. Yes and then one of the boys from here jumped on top of me to protect me and they kicked him about five times and just walked away. We had a description this the boy was 12 years old. No, no, that's wrong, he was 20. He's 20? Yeah. Is he a Negro resident of St. Augustine? Yeah, yeah, Jackson is his name. Oh yes, he's one of the leaders of the youth group down there. Yes yes that's right. I see, and then what happened? Well, then I got up happened.

and we were walking along and they were inside kind of a hedge, and they just followed along Until the next opening in and stepped out in front of me again and this time have they got me and I suspect they hit me three or four times and knocked me down and then they probably kicked me 15 or 20 times. Uh huh. Tore my shirt up. Finally the Sheriff pulled them off me. He did? Was he there? Yeah, he was the one who pulled them off. Uh Huh. After a while, it was you know, he just wasn't around very much at all. It almost appeared to me that, you know, he was letting them beat me and he decided I'd had enough and so he pulled them off. I see. Because he obviously physically pulled one of the guys off me. Did he make any arrest? No, none whatsoever. Could you describe, were other people hurt in the march beside yourself? Yeah, there was an eight year old boy who was slugged out and then one of the students from Yale was beaten once. And Andrew Young and

Young and uh Laverne Taylor were both beaten fairly severely. Andrew Young was beaten quite badly. He was. I spoke to him last night. He was I spoke to him last night he's an aide to Dr. Martin Luther King Yes It was just fantastic. He got up and went back for more. [Interviewer] Then did anyone retaliate or...? [Speaker] No, no, there was a scuffle at the end and it was, in all honesty, as we were leaving, a bunch of white men ran across the street at a group and some of the boys started to defend themselves. I saw a white man throw a pop bottle at this point. [Interviewer] Yes? [Speaker] And at this point the police were almost not in evidence. I understand that they were at the end of the line, and we got back to our section of town alright. [Interviewer] I see. But you didn't retaliate at any time? [Speaker] Me, oh no, of course not. No. No. It was our feeling that the non-violence was the stance that we'd have to take. [Interviewer] Are there other people from New England or from

the North who are white who are taking part in these demonstrations? [Speaker] Yes, two of my colleagues from Boston University, Barbara Smith and Gene Dawson were both participating in the... [Interviewer] Are they both chaplains as well? [Speaker] Right, they're both chaplains at Boston University. [Interviewer] Were they injured? [Speaker] No, no, Gene was not attacked. They were both in the march but he was not attacked. I and the student from Yale were the two white people. Although Gene Dawson very interestingly noted that one of the people, before I was attacked, he heard someone yell "There's England." "There's England." your plans? Will you be staying in St Augustine and participating? Oh yes, it participating? Oh yes, yes. It seems to be that the, uh, the issue's fairly well drawn at this point. It is either, that law enforcement is almost at the the verge of breaking down completely in this town. And for us to withdraw would be to to the forces of almost hoodlums.

Will you yourself be participating in future? Yes, I shall continue to participate. I spoke with Mr. Young earlier this afternoon, and he said that Dr.King would not be participating tonight. He didn't think that you would either. [Speaker] Well, I'll do what I'm told to do. [Interviewer] I see. [Speaker] But I'm here, available to the movement to do what they would like to have done. [Interviewer] I see. Now Bill, I was wondering, since you spent a couple weeks in St. Augustine this past spring when Mrs. Peabody was down there, I wonder if you could describe the mood of the city as contrasted to last spring. [Speaker] Oh I think the mood in the city is as different as night and day. Yeah. This city now in which the sort of things that we thought were violent in April are now-- are just now nothing. For instance this afternoon we had young children downtown. A 14 year old girl was telling me she was hit by a white man. See, this is nothing now.

[Interviewer] For no apparent reason? [Speaker] Yeah, he just walked down the line hitting the people who were... They were down down carry placards. [Interviewer] In a picket line? [Speaker] Yeah. It was a student march, is what it was. And they just walked down around the information both and came back and a man just walked down the line hitting the children. So I just see the mood as just completely changed. I had a feeling that we were, you know, in a sense tolerated here at Easter, even though there was violence. It seems to me now they are no longer being tolerated. (unclear) withdrawn from any sort of influence, that's kind of turned the town over to vandals. [Interviewer] I see. Do you feel there's any hope for achieving any of the goals which Dr. King... [Speaker] Oh yes, yes I think so but I (stammers) it seems to me at this point that as an American citizen, that I have to ask for a higher form of government to provide me with protection. It seems to me it's kind of obvious

that there is a breakdown of law and order. I mean, what can happen to us has happened. And it was not one of those things that happened in a minute or two, We were down there 20, I was down there, obviously the police were aware of our existence 15 minutes before, 20 minutes before I was even slugged. [Interviewer] I see. [Speaker] The people who were hitting us, who were attacking us, stopping us, were in a fairly small area. There were only 40 or 50 of them. [Interviewer] Could you describe the effect of Dr. Martin Luther King's present [sic] in St. Augustine on both the Negro community and the white community? [Speaker] I could say in the freedom movement, I myself have felt a real sense of security, now that he was here. I think I feel this sense of seriousness, a sense of, well, and a sense of security on the part of the Negro community. I should say from what little we can see the patrol cars are constantly around now, and I should say that the white community is keenly aware

of the fact he's in town. [Interviewer] Did Dr. King bring an aura hope with him when he arrived in St. Augustine? [Speaker] Yes, yes it seems to me after listening to him today and chatting with him for a few minutes it's quite obvious that it's very easy in a situation to get the idea that we are alone down here and that no one is concerned. Because I think that the forces that I as a-- that I would say a middle-class white man depend upon in my community to defend decency, I think these forces have withdrawn. I think Dr. King's coming down here reminds us again that St. Augustine, Florida is ultimately and morally responsible to the nation, and this nation responsible to the world. I think it gives us courage. It seems to me what is important in St.

Augustine is that moral forces within our nation must converge upon a city that seems to have lost its conscience. And so I should say that those who are able and concerned should come to St. Augustine because only by their coming will this sort of violence that is normal to the Negro community be eased and they'll be able to join kind of the American society. So I would very much, we would very much, all of us down here, want people to come to St. Augustine to join us in a non-violent army. People are coming from all over the country. Dr. King announced today somebody's coming-- bus coming from North Carolina, bus coming from Alabama, another one from Georgia, and to the religious leaders of this country the appeal is being made and we need people. [Host] Ted Mascott of WGBH-FM talking with the Reverend Bill

England, associate chaplain at Boston University, who is currently in jail in St. Augustine, Florida. Now from the wires of the Associated Press, here is the latest news from that troubled city. A grand jury investigation of racial turmoil in St. Augustine, Florida was ordered today after Negro integration leader Martin Luther King was jailed for trying to integrate a restaurant. The state attorney requested grand jury action after two conferences with governor Faris Bryant. The grand jury will start a special session tomorrow. The Reverend King and the 13 companions were arrested in an attempt to enter a motel restaurant and being refused service by the manager. Earlier, Mr. King had told newsmen he had requested aides to ask President Johnson to send federal marshals to help keep order in that city. That concludes the first in a weekly series of programs focusing on this summer's struggle for civil rights. Long Hot Summer '64 will be heard each Thursday evening at 7:30. Long Hot Summer '64 is produced each week by Ted Mascott of the WGBH-FM staff.

This is the Educational Radio Network. Programs such as the one you've just heard cost money. They are only possible with your continued support. We still must raise 125,000 dollars by the end of August. Send your 1964 contribution to WGBH Cambridge 42. This is WGBH-FM 89.7 megacycles, Boston.