Say Brother; Struggle in South Africa; 253

Two weeks ago a leader of the movement known as the African party for the independence of Guinea in Cape Verde Islands GC was assassinated in front of his home. Nearly a year ago on say a brother. We showed you a film of the liberation forces and then he was so. And on that same film is an interview you'll see that film again tonight along with a discussion with Gil Fernandez a to go brawl was in New York last year to appeal to the United Nations to aid in preventing some of the atrocities the colonial forces of the Portuguese were committing in Guinea-Bissau. As you know there were demonstrations in front of the Portuguese consulate here in Boston last week. We have some of that too. And also on tonight's show we'll talk with Chris and Ted about the future of a war of liberation in the southern part of Africa. Changing the definition of Africa a revolution has begun in Africa which we hope to Chairman so that our minds are transformed. It is a revolution with a purpose and that purpose is the extension to all African

citizens of the requirements of human dignity. Beauteous Neri president of Tanzania. I am. Amidst the troubles of the present day we stand out as a brotherhood of peoples bound together by centuries of peaceful life and Christian understanding the community who whatever their differences help each other develop that culture and education together and proudly by the same name and common heritage of being Portuguese. Dr. Antonio prime minister of Portugal. I am. I am. We're on the west coast of Africa Portuguese guinea a country twice the size of Wales.

These people don't want to be called Portuguese and are fighting for their independence. That war is a miniature Vietnam that came to Viet Cong or that caused. The deaths isn't a headline will. Well the next enjoying one of that patrol the films this side of the ring a little sad to see one of those rules normally referred to in reports which began in. Africa in 1900 at the peak of European imperialism. Two countries only I'm independent of Europe. But as the century goes on ideas change. The European powers become entangled in the two great worlds and African responsibilities a shed sometimes violently sometimes nostalgically sometimes with no regrets. But in one fashion or another independent spreads steadily across the continent. Except for the three Portuguese territories in Angola Well began in 1961 in Mozambique in 1963. These

conflicts are reported quite regularly in 1962. Another more successful book almost ignored War of Independence broke out in tiny Portuguese Guinea. These are the kind of rebel and there's been places that I'm going to not over Name Nino. One woman an electrician now one of the top 15 men in the rebel movement twenty eight trained in Cuba and Czechoslovakia. Constantine does sometimes take Shadow Choo-Choo to his friends. A study for a Portuguese army just now military command of the south front. Paolo Correa aged 27 was a bus driver is now a political commissar. First these men have been trained in guerrilla warfare at the Nanking military academy in communist China Constantine's other nickname is Westmoreland. Mommy age 32 married with four children all girls a

peasant farmer who has been a unit commander for four years. He still carries a bullet in his thigh from an attack in 1066. And I know money was unit commander. We have another. Medical orderly aged 60 married with 13 children. A peasant farmer all his life. He had three months hospital training abroad after joining the movement in 1961. And you know. And the ordinary soldiers Friday January the 12th a guerrilla unit is being formed after the remnants of old ones. There are seven days away from the action we have to see. An attack on a Portuguese garrison of 600 troops. These are the armed forces of the movement that calls itself the

African party for the independence of Guinea and the cape bad islands. The P.A. IGC all I'm paid volunteers so. That's going to be 100. This isn't just a simple affair. And finally a Macaca brow 843 secretary general and founder of the party in 1956. One of only 14 Africans from Guinea ever to gain a university degree under the Portuguese train in Lisbon as an agricultural engineer he comes from the same student generation that produced the rebel leaders in Angola and Mozambique. We think that. All of the bad beat colonies. In Africa. Africa. Were not really independent. We think that our people have. An. Obligation. To anybody.

For the liberation of Africa we think that doing that we are doing. Men. And we have our right into context of the story is. It not if this is the movement's only permanent base just outside Portuguese territory in the friendly neighboring country of Guinea. An old French colony once they leave here the guerrillas will be on foot all the way. This is the unit we have to live with. Fifty two men forty eight of them peasant farmers one electrician two doctors one domestic servant average age 20 the youngest 15 the oldest 33.

Beautiful. Morning. To. You both. This particular group comes entirely from to try. Forty five of them land the biggest tribe in the country who only finally subdued by the Portuguese in 1936 after 50 years of sporadic fighting. The other eight are from one of the smallest tribes of the Bayeux including our commandant Nanda mommy. Of people who are determined to rise against their masters and have the faith to continue the struggle must always reckon with the harsh measures which will be taken against them. I must be ready to face them. Otherwise it is better they should stay quiet. General George greet us. Cyprus leader. This village population 300 has been bombed 26 times since

the war began. These are the civilians of guerrilla war. The United Nations has twice pleaded with the rest of the world to

Portugal. Portugal is a member of NATO. This is NATO's equipment. We think that wealth and power. Cannot. Give. Aid less because. Of thought you know I have been in London and I met some people. And I put our problems. In even one of my colleagues. Have been in London to contact the Red Cross and. The people of that of course to contact the head across. We are going to find savages. We are going to find wild beasts wild beasts who are not

Portuguese because they obey orders from international communism. We have face to face with terrorists who have to be forces wild beasts a full Portuguese Army minister speaking to units on route to Africa. I want out of. It. I must get out of the city go I did in his final pep talk. Paolo tells them this attack is made doubly important by the presence of a western film crew which puts the eyes of the world upon them or gives them a great opportunity to demonstrate that they are not just savages that need two dozen of his audience. Another being in the cinema he reminds them that each man in each attack has been submitting to the party's program of independence they have a tough much ahead of them and a well defended target at the end of it. But you show they want to quit. Well. You know. What I would say.

The ambition of these men is not to destroy an enemy it is to achieve the dignity of civilization the enemy possesses. So these illiterate peasant farmers dignity is education. This school getting from the aerial bombardment in a jungle clearing is one of a hundred and fifty nine founded by the movement in the liberated zone since the war began. It's all that there were only 45 schools for Africans in the whole country and most of those were thanks to missionary charity. Before the war there were only 45 teaches. Now there are two hundred and twenty. I thought others are going to need one really. We can only do the freedom and dignity

of our people. Is the fundamental. We I'm not. I think I needed you when I say I think. Capitalism for the community you know a country. Graph I think for the independence of our people. We are two hours from the attack. Army is not a militant organization like you or that I'm as you know. I mean it is a new statement of our people to fight for independence. You develop from nothing until now what you have seen. But do you suppose that all of our I mean is that we are not we are not military people. We have I mean the militant. And after independence.

After realizing our goal or. The magic of time these people have to go back. To the sign. 4:30 in the afternoon Saturday January the 20th the group 30 gets into position. I don't know. I mean if you're looking at the end of the mice you

know Donna got it. The Portuguese garrison of Buba range 900 meters across the llama river guys and strength 600 civilian population 200 regional command center for the Portuguese. A. The right would be Group Study Group 17 and be group 5 for a somewhat tenuous it's not. I had been attacked nine times before. In addition to 600 troops

there are a fight Obama and peeled oil storage tanks and a radio station. Well I am. I am. I

am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am

I. I am. I am. I am. I. I am. 12 minutes of picking runs stand off attack the Portuguese protecting the baby by

surprise but from small arms fire the only response was a mobile range will cause casualties on the gorilla side. Six wounded on the Portuguese side the oil dumped in flames and enough wounded to fill a relay of helicopters for several hours. One more typical small action is over the group will be in another in two days time. My guest tonight is Mr. Gil Fernandez representative of the sea. Mr. FERNANDEZ Welcome to say brother. Thank you. We just watched a film that was shot. In Guinea-Bissau. It was shot by a British company. How would he able to get into the country and shoot that film and were about to happen to you. There were some time ago asking if they could come and make some kind of a movie on going to be and

then I would tell them yes we can come. We have nothing to hide you know. And they score and then they came and then they made the movie with no going to attach to it. We only got out of it a copy of the movie at the time you know in 1968. You want some kind of propaganda in England because we've been fighting for the last 10 years. But yet nothing is really known about the most trouble this kind of thing that would help a little bit. Why did you want probably Gana naman because of good aid been given to Portugal also by England. You know we've been England and in Portugal and I've got an old Elias and or a buy in the data support Portugal so using it you want to English people to know of course not the English Government. Let me see. So you know when I read information on Guinea-Bissau and what's happening. It said that the three major comp countries that are supporting the Portuguese are the United States Britain and France. And

yet you allow members of a British company to come in and to film your activities now. How are you going to God from having. Your military secrets revealed in this kind of thing because you know you know that thing kind of and I but you know you know you cannot help it. But if you do some kind of propaganda you have to take a chance in it. We took a chance. But that's the day they left to turn things around you know the number of men in the book and things like that and so you know then you take everything you know they can actually everything but you know you're taking a chance when you're sending people inside to find out what's going on here tonight. You were born in Guinea-Bissau. You're going to top Tell me about. Guinea-Bissau what what is it like. Well I'm going to be sort of be in a company of course you know put off by French words. And 1963 about the ninety nine point seven percent of the corporation cannot read or write. And he gave a very very flat land between Senegal and the Republic and at one

point in 1955 we form a party trying to see if we could get some kind of welfare rights you know from the government and then we made a petition to the UN. We wrote to the government and did nothing and you know came out of it and then in 1959 we had a we call the strike on the back of the dockworkers. And then the management called police and then they came and they shot everybody in the picket line and shot them. Everybody on the picket line every worker. So as a result in all 50 of them got killed and more than 100 injured and then from that time on we we understood that it would be impossible to talk you know the government like what your government you know the government only because the party went to the countryside and tried to mobilise the peasantry from 59 up to 63. We did nothing

but just in talking to the peasants and mobilizing the present day in and day out. Saying the same thing you know that during the day during the night. For a week for a month and for four years. And when we understood what that was all about we launch a struggle. And right now we are controlling two thirds of the country side of going to the south. Tell me I want to talk more about that but I want you to tell me about yourself a little bit now. You were you were an educator in your country where you. Yes I was I was but I belong to that small clique you know that small elite which you know were able to get an education. Because they are having about the 99 percent of people not able to read or write. Somebody asked to do you know how to read and write. So they were using in a very small minority that they they would give education to and then use them to

rule the population. So my grandfather and my father and so on that belonged to a small clique and then also have been you know grooved you know being you know shaped to be able to be some kind of an officer in the government of Portugal. And then you know I've been able to. To use me through. What happened to you what how did you I could not see myself fitting into that pattern because I saw your father did your grandfather. Yeah but what happened to you things are changing. I could not see you know that the that the punishment being committed by the means. That I should be part of it. So I reject it completely. And as you know my name is jihad Fernandez which is typically a Portuguese name and there is nothing I can do about it. But I reject completely you know whatever they have to offer me as a Portuguese and not the Portuguese I'm an African. Primarily you went to an American university.

Yes I spent about four years in New Hampshire just in New Hampshire and then I went down to American diversity in D.C. for my Emmy and I went back to the struggle the other Guinea-Bissau like he said he was not the big Not the real you know I was the only one. Come here you're the only one I have the tendency you know people coming here and not going back you know. And maybe if they sent him some more people here that I would have stayed here. Unfortunately people go into Iraq to buy jewelry and and so on to get Union and do their job and don't come back. The struggle you see we are forming a nation the same time they will come back let's talk about the struggle some Are you getting military support. Of course yeah we're getting them primarily from the EU Organization of African Unity and we're abide never a common fund which they give every year money that is but it's funded and given to us. None other than that and we have no arrangement bilaterally with Geria Guinea Tanzania Mauritania

and Zambia also bilaterally and other than that you know you want to get them some support from Soviet Union from Sweden. And maybe shortly from Finland and Denmark also. Are you struggling to to to change the country politically or are you trying to really establish a new country. I'm not trying to taint the men and I think that there is going to be able to do it. Gendered mentality of the people trying to build something you know you make them think you know without going from into an established black government. Definitely definitely we are going for a complete independence from the Portuguese UK. Now what about peoples of African descent around the world particularly here in the United States. Are you do you find that they are in any way interested in what's happening and do you are you know as they are in for being a very poor country and not having enough money for propaganda abroad or fighting thought well known but I think that

in the future. We sent somebody here to try to talk about the War of the Black Sea and see what can be done about it. We we having a common struggle. So you're right in a manner of speaking next door to the Republic of Guinea. What's the difference from Guinea-Bissau in the Republic of Guinea in culturally What's the difference difference. Not very much difference you know not very much although you know you used to define you know different tribes and in different areas. But if you go near the border of a sort of overlap and the only area was divided between Portugal and France and frantically sort of part of it was now independent and then what goes to the northern part of it which at no point is going to even though they've been there you know for the last five centuries. And France only 40 75 100 years in and I think after the coast of Berlin this I don't know. But the singing African president took its share of it and took it out beginning with public but is more or less on same type of people

kind of mentality. Anyway are you winning a war to persuade So far we are winning and I think that at this point that really can stop us. And that's you know I probably had with the Nixon saw fit to go to authorities and give more money to Portugal because if you fight you know a guerrilla war is not only what you do in the in the battlefield that will count. That's very important. But then if you can dream becoming of the enemy and right now you really have been up against war don't have the money to keep the war going on for 10 years and go into Mozambique and in Guinea at this point they need money. So no need to seems to be doing in its orders and then they and then we start to give a tunnel of Portugal what half a billion dollars. U.S. tried to give him have to go don't be giving there will be more to go. Half a billion dollars and was the purpose of this money. Apparently some kind of aid.

To Portugal. Another one of the resources in Guinea Bissau I mean why is Portugal so interested in that little thirty thousand square mile area going in very small and you know some block site but it's primarily agricultural country but the problem not the problem the problem isn't going to do it by a large and very rich and Mozambique. And then you know they have an idea and then the theory if we lose the gaming will have to be losing Angola and Mozambique. So they're trying to hang on to to get into right now they're making something like you know only four million dollars you know at the beginning but the military they are they spending 18 billion dollars a year to keep getting today the contradiction you know if they didn't stay in and I think now with only 4 million shares are down in a domino theory it's strategically very important and then you know it would be a very bad precedent. You know a bunch of Africans can get organized

and through physically and militarily. You know we seem out of the continent like you know in effect in South Africa and effect in Rhodesia and probably in effect here. So you know my give blacks ideas here might be better ideas and tell me do you have family still in you know as I have I feel have you concerned about their safety. Yeah of course you know but nothing I can do about it. Are they supporting the revolutionary movement or are they still part of the status and I don't know I don't see them at all I haven't seen them for last 20 years. How long have you been in this country. I've been here for the last four weeks probably. And where were you before. Well I wasn't going to be here before and I'm going back to going to be talking about three or four how you're able to travel so freely freely what can I get around and I see you know I could be talking to the president of a country that oh I hope not.

I mean do you have a government all established and whatnot at this point ready to move into. Any time you know that the route to quit we can take over the country. So we were ready for it. The question has been raised often that the Africans in many of these areas on equip to run their own country. How or how well you know if we could provide them for 10 years. Should be enough to keep the country know. That they have you know right now you know about 35000 men troops put sizable beginning in football elation that an awful lot of men and they having something like a only 4000 settlers. So they're using them thought their front door to the garden or foresight to see if we can in a fairly by fend off you know and fight the you know what Tainio we should be able to govern ourselves. Now if you are successful do you plan to to then take a long look at Angola and Mozambique and to get involved

militarily in those areas. All I don't know really. But we already involved in that we then go to Mozambique because we we have a common organisation would be proud that I'm going to be and we help each other. You're telling information extend the document and we we collaborate very closely. So if they happen to be free before us and then by the thought of U.S. Portugal invaded the Republic of Guinea they must've used Guinea-Bissau as their launching point. You know that controlling right now mostly the towns and major cities that controlling it. So when they they invented Guinea they were coming from going to be taught in the film from the copper from the south and one of the names you know of the Soviet invasion was a good three for being a very progressive you know regime in North Africa that kind of the Withrow him and at the same time you know if they could have killed you know only there and then you know finish up you know there would be a GC with our movement but then

you know they were saying look if you can I have a question I want you to answer briefly. Recently you brought two brothers from getting. Trustees and then you committed against them. One had is a year both of them cut off is that right torch and one was burned by a local. Yeah. What. What effect that have on the people of the United Nations. Well I've been there you know because normally when you're talking to them that they don't have any kind of evidence. You don't want to talk in what they know and they bought it and tortured. You know the thing about it you know. So this time I brought it to the evidence and I think that in the long run you have some effect. I got that right now but in the long run the public will see that no matter who you are you know when you get what you have cut off you know by a pout and it will provoke some kind of reaction on you. Well Mr. FERNANDEZ we're out of time thank you for coming all the way from New York. And so to talk with us I wish you much luck. Thank you very much.

Thank you and I think he's right. I'm going to stay home. You will not be able to turn on it. How about cell phones. I guess you're probably enjoying commercials because the revolution. The Revolution Will Not Be Televised. The revolution will not be brought to you by sit without commercial interruption. The revolution and the John by John Mitchell Spyro and no heat all confiscated from a homicide where the revolution will not be telling us the revolution will not be brought to you and will not stop nothing with us Steve

McQueen Julia. The Revolution Will Not just come out sex appeal the Revolution Will Not Get rid of the revolution will not make five pounds that I think of the revolution will tell about that. Those of us with a face which in a cut down the bottom of the dead is not a kind of an ambulance and take 30 years of. The revolution without me telling me. That will be sitting down because of the instant replay now but not out of all the rail with the brand new process. OK I will give. Credit. To the problem. OK. That's a little bit and women have the advantage. Got down with

table set for tomorrow because like me and if you look in Book Club writer date the Revolution Without Me It's all about me. That will be the one I like is on to something like the coming of the Barry woman liberationist And Jack you know not. Knowing that. Things are what I mean by job well president not you know somebody live in terrible time no doubt it can single but I'm going to call the brown earth the revolution will not be dilemma. I'm talking with Chris and Kate in 10 of the Pan African liberation Committee. Chris two weeks ago on the Call Cobra was assassinated. First of all why was he says and I didn't. Who did it. Well as to the why I think it can be safely said that there are degrees. The government is now desperate because of all the revolutions that African revolutions are facing. Mozambique and Guinea

Bissau the one in Guinea Bissau is the most progressive the most successful. And we see here an example of a government that's so desperate that it will use any tactics to try and stem that revolution. Among other things it has been proved that the Portuguese have used chemical warfare. They've used napalm. They've used fragmentation bombs. They've used poisons to poison streams and lakes and rivers. They have destroyed the natural vegetation. And now they are. Assassinating the leaders of the movement hoping thereby to either stop the movement discourage people intimidate others and so forth so that I think this is the basic reason behind this assassination just as three years ago February of

69 Eduardo in wonderland of Mozambique was assassinated by Portuguese agents when he was dying as we see here and I have to eliminate the leadership hoping thereby to achieve the end of stopping the revolution. As to who did it. The recent issue of Newsweek magazine which came out this week gives a very very amazing story. They devote two pages to the revolution in southern Africa and they go into the reasons behind assassination. Their story contends that Kaberle was assassinated by members of his own party the African party for the independence of Guinea and Cape Verde. And that the fact that he's Cape Verdean.

And the majority of members of this group are black Africans from the mainland was the cause for this intense power struggle. Now there have been other reports in The New York Times and so forth. But the correct story is that which was reported by President of the Republic of Guinea. Because this assassination took place in the capital of the Republic of Guinea Conakry. The story is that certain Portuguese Asians and these black Guinea Indians wear. And carriage to infiltrate the IGC and they did this successfully and it was these agents who are responsible for the matter of now. This should be a true story because it is said that they

were captured in three boats as they were leaving the Republic of Guinea to go back to Guinea Bissau the Republic of Guinea Navy intercepted those three boats. I arrested the agents who had just murdered and captured a few several of his aides. So those people are in custody in the Republic of Guinea and president said a committee had been appointed to investigate further. The reasons behind this assassination. But it can be truly reported here that the U.S. magazine is trying to confuse people into believing that rather than that the Portuguese are behind the assassination the assassination is the result of some power struggle tribal or otherwise. There's a fondness among Western people and the Western media to say anything that happens in Africa that is

bad is because of tribalism you know Intel our power struggles and that kind of thing. Chris what's going to happen now to the liberation movement. Yeah well I would see the loss of Kaberle is going to be felt because in many ways the measures up to some of the leading leaders like Sherry in Cuba. Mouths and others being African has not been given that that status of a leading. A tactician but there's no question in my mind that here we had a man who knew. The tactics of guerrilla warfare. Who organized one of the most refined forms of guerrilla warfare in the history of the

world. So in that sense I think the movement is going to survive Have you lost one of its chief thinkers one of these activists one of its chief exponents but I think as in the case of Mozambique where where one line was killed that did not stop the revolution. If anything it encouraged the people to struggle towards the goal and objective that their fallen leader had indicated. So I feel that the fact that I had not. Aggregated to himself. The duty of directing and guiding the revolution sides that the revolution was in his head. And when you goes the revolution dies. He had used democratic principles in military political economic and and other spheres to involve as many people in Guinea as possible. So

his going is not in any way going to mean that there won't be new leadership to prosecute the struggle. And you know directed to its ultimate goal which is the liberation the independence the self-determination of a people we have for five centuries been under Portuguese colonial rule. It seems that our media when reporting these kinds of stories in charge imply that out of every generation perhaps one man is intelligent enough to lead people who are oppressed. Yes I would say. You know in every generation there are outstanding mean men who stand head and shoulders above. You know there are. Companions in that sense I would classify that he was in many ways superior. Being intelligence wise and otherwise. But that does not mean that he hasn't shared some of his

feelings some of his aspirations some of these thoughts about the revolution. To people who had been working with him and in this way I think. The revolution can still go on and still achieve it's and even though he's gone. So the project is I think have been frustrated if their goal and objective was to stop the revolution by killing. The head of the revolution in that revolution has no one here. It's a hydra headed monster which the party just cannot deal with. There was some talk that Cabrera was thinking about declaring that it was an independent nation. Will this happen right on October the 17th in New York. Are nouns that face to that popular elections based on universal suffrage. We're going to be having early in November in Guinea. And that a popular national assembly composed of.

80 members from the masses and 40 members from the party was going to be formed. That took place early November. He further said he was going to declare Guinea-Bissau an independent African state soon. Now to the best of my knowledge that had not been done yet and the reason for declaring Guinea-Bissau independent is because as he said back in 68. Guinea the country of Guinea Bissau is has a situation where the people have almost completely liberated the territory except that the Portuguese still retain control of you know certain outposts like you know the capital and various others. But to all intents and purposes Guinea Bissau has gone back to its legitimate owners who are the black people in Guinea-Bissau.

And it's that reason and the success of the liberation movement which led shortly before is there to announce that our. Dean is going to be proclaimed an independent country. The other thing is that the U. The United Nations has in some way endorsed this really in two ways First the general assembly voted 92 6 to have the liberation movements of Mozambique and Golan Guinea-Bissau regarded as the authentic representatives and voices of people in those countries. And that in matters dealing with those countries the liberation movements in those countries should be recognized as the legitimate you know governments almost of those countries. Secondly there was another vote in the general assembly. In a committee of the General

Assembly dealing with an army BIA and Zimbabwe and the Portuguese colonies to say when matters. Relating to those countries I discussed the liberation movements in the Portuguese territories. I'm going to be given the status no longer of being petitioners but of being observant which is the higher you know category on the 17th of October was the fairest speaker at the United Nations to speak as a representative of the liberation movements so that internationally too there is a recognition of the fact that in Guinea-Bissau at least the people have now taken over substantially from the Portuguese and when the United Nations which is a very well it has been called a debating society. You know I give such recognition. It means he did that because there was ample evidence to prove that. Guinea-Bissau had

become three and so let me also remark that in the vote 90 to 6. The countries which voted against that measure were South Africa Portugal Great Britain United States France and Brazil. Now our focus on the United States the United States has consistently frustrated any moves on the part of international bodies to deal effectively with the Portuguese government. With respect to its core values in in Africa and here again we see another example of how this country expressing itself at its highest level at the United Nations votes against measures and resolutions that would hire and expedite the revolution in southern Africa and Guinea Bissau. They do it diplomatically through the U.N. militarily through NATO economical utero encouraging United States corporations

to trade and do business in Portuguese held territories. And then of course technical aid of one kind or another has been given training of Portuguese officers in various places in this country is going on even now. And given this kind of evidence one cannot escape the conclusion that the United States. Foreign policy with regard to African countries is very very negative and something has to be done about it. CHRIS Why is United States supporting Portugal. Well Guinea-Bissau is a small country and printed out earlier. Right. Very few resources. Right. Why. Well I think you have to see it in a broader context. It isn't just going to be so there's a lot of very very wealthy a country one of the wealthiest countries in Africa. The oil does go those that are diamonds iron and so forth.

Then there's Mozambique a big country vast resources. So it's a package and the United States support stems out of it. Not that factor but there is a natural resources to be exploited there. And then another thing I think is racism. We cannot but help our noticing especially with the present administration the fact that. There are some very racist things that go on and we have to be honest and blunt about these things. We're dealing with black people in Africa. This government of the United States with regard to black people in this country hasn't shown any. You know and Zaire to you to help as Patrick Moynihan said benign neglect I need leg. Exactly. Chris you know you mention a black Americans. Are they concerned with what's happening in the southern part of Africa and those you meet. What's your feelings about.

Very much so I think there's a growing. Feeling of solidarity and support for especially the situation in southern Africa all throughout the country there are groups black groups. Imagine collecting funds doing all kinds of things. They march in Washington to eat you went. Last year in May was testimony more than you know ample testimony to the interest that black Americans are showing there were more than 25000 legs went down to Washington that if one had to vote with their feet it was you know some such a case. I've been working with various groups on this especially in the area which is very important in the area of forcing United States corporations to get out of southern Africa. This is where you know it's all at. I mean we can DREs funds we can raise medical supplies and so forth. But those are piddly compared with say what Jill Fernandez was saying to you last January.

Yes. That the United States for instance and of 71 gave four hundred thirty six million dollars to Portugal. Now how much can we as black people in this country raise. Nothing like forty six million dollars. So that the only effective way we can make a contribution is not giving little you know few dollars here and there but probably getting these corporations out because it's these United States corporations and other foreign corporations that are giving aid and support to Portugal and other Southern African regions to continue their struggle against black people. And Chris thank you very much for coming on say brother and we hope that we can support you in the future. Thank you thank you very much. Thank you. What was.

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