WGBH Radio; The Emily Rooney Show

From WGBH in Boston this is the Emily Rooney show Friday December 9th 2011 I'm Emily Rooney. On today's show we round up this week's top news headlines. Mayor Tom Menino orders the Occupy Boston protesters out of Dewey Square but a hotly anticipated showdown never really materialized at all but a few have moved on. Where does the movement go from here. And speaking of which everyone has to follow the law that a yes or no. Everyone has to follow the law. Despite coming across as a bit robotic in this week's Democratic debate Elizabeth Warren gains ground over Senator Scott Brown in a new poll. Plus Newt Gingrich leaps ahead of the pack and seems poised to give Mitt Romney a run for his money in New Hampshire. Then thumbs up thumbs down on holiday cards and dress code for reporters and more. It's all coming up this hour on the Emily Rooney show. But first the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi Singh 26

out of 27 European Union countries are open to joining a new treaty tying their finances together to solve the region's euro crisis. Only Britain remains opposed. Eleanor Beardsley reports that Britain has created a rift in the union. Appearing at 5:00 in the morning after negotiating all night a clearly disappointed French President Nicolas Sarkozy announced that the new financial union would not include everybody. Will you be 15. And if we would have preferred a reform treaty for all 27 members said Sacco's but it isn't possible because of our British friends. So it'll be a treaty between 17 nations in the marathon. Overnight talks the 17 countries that use the euro persuaded the others to consider joining the new treaty that would create some of those countries may face parliamentary opposition to the treaty because it allows for unprecedented oversight of national budgets. Britain argued that the treaty would threaten its national sovereignty and damage London's financial services industry.

But the U.K.'s refusal to back the new treaty leaves it isolated. Eleanor Beardsley NPR News Paris. U.S. stocks are reacting positively with the Dow up 153 points or more than 1 percent to twelve thousand one hundred fifty one. The family of retired FBI agent Robert Levinson who went missing in Iran years ago is showing the public for the first time a hostage video Levinson's family received more than a year ago. On it Levinson is pleading with you the U.S. government to communicate with his captors to day Levinson's wife Christine issued her own plea and promise to keep fighting until her husband is safely back home. I will continue to do everything I can to bring you home alive. All I want is for our family to be whole again. We love you. We miss you every day. We will not abandon you. The U.S. government says it does not have solid evidence on who may be holding Levinson hostage. Violence is reported in several parts of Syria. NPR's Peter Kenyon says activists report the army is massing around the restive central city

of Holmes homes has been a key city for opposition protests. Yesterday an oil pipeline carrying crude to a refinery in homes was hit by an explosion. Today activists say the military appears to be preparing for a major offensive to quell dissent there. And reports that could not be independently confirmed activists said two boys aged 10 and 12 were among today's fatalities. The government says it's battling armed terrorists and will not halt its efforts to restore order. Neighboring Turkey's foreign minister called on President Bashar al-Assad to punish security forces responsible for the bloodshed. The U.N. estimates more than 4000 people have died in the one month uprising. Peter Kenyon NPR News. At last check on Wall Street the Dow is up 148 points to twelve thousand one hundred forty six Nasdaq up thirty six points to twenty six thirty two. You're listening to NPR News. Ford is recalling more than one hundred twenty eight thousand fusion and Mercury Milan sedans from model years 2010 and 2011 because of the

risk that the wheels will fall off. The recall affects vehicles that have 17 inch steel wheels. Authorities say the bolts holding the wheels can fracture and cause a vibration that if ignored could cause the will to separate from the vehicle. Ford is urging all affected customers to contact their dealers. Two of Canada's telecom giants have bought major stakes in the company that owns the Toronto Maple Leafs hockey franchise and the Toronto Raptors basketball club. Dang carbon reports it's one of the richest sports deals a North American history. Bell Canada enterprises in Rogers Communications have teamed up to buy nearly 80 percent of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment. The deal is worth one point three two billion dollars. The majority stake had been held by the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan. Under the deal Rogers and BCE will each own thirty seven and a half percent with Toronto businessman Larry tenant by increasing his stake to 25 percent. The Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment teams are among the most popular major league franchises in North America

and among the most lucrative. The Toronto Maple Leafs topped the annual Forbes list of the most profitable hockey franchises with an estimated total value of five hundred twenty one million dollars. The deal is expected to be finalized by the middle of next year. After league approval. For NPR News I'm Dan Carpenter in Toronto. Well the U.S. trade deficit has shrunk to its lowest level this year but in October imports were down a tenth of a percent and exports also dropped. Lakshmi Singh NPR News in Washington. Support for NPR comes from the Joyce Foundation working to improve the quality of life in the Great Lakes region. Learn more at Joyce ftn dot org. It's live and it's local. Coming up next two hours of local talk the Emily Rooney show and the callee Crossley Show only on WGBH. Good afternoon you're listening to the Emily Rooney show it's our Friday week in review. This week's

theme moving on. That's what's happening right now in Dewey Square as a couple dozen protesters remain lodged there. Also moving up Newt Gingrich who is closing in on Mitt Romney in New Hampshire. Elizabeth Warren is also on the move as a new poll shows her well ahead of Scott Brown in a head to head match up. Then we've got House Majority Whip Charlie Murphy who voluntarily moved out of his position before House speaker Bob DiLeo could fire him. Well that and more I'm joined here in the studio by former Boston City Council and freelance columnist for The Boston Globe Magazine Tom Kean former state treasurer Tim Cahill and WGBH contributor Cara Miller welcome to all of you. Thank you to be here. First solo Occupy Boston. We are the 99 percent right one of those 99 percenters. Ethan Harrison who is merge is something as a spokesperson for the Occupy camp resigned what he believed was the likelihood of the camp being shut down at midnight so he pointed to two

garbage trucks idling nearby as a sign of things to come during the expansion and the first time that we really don't want to use the city of Boston drop in garbage trucks after they cleared the second encampment and use the garbage trucks to carry away any and everything that was like that. So when I see this I know that things are continuing. It's something we've been expecting. Like when one sees rain clouds they know that rain is coming. Well said there isn't. Well here again you are in the trash. Yes you were down there that's why we had a crew there all night just in anticipating a something more dramatic might happen but I didn't really know and I did visit I was there last night and I also went down this morning about 8 o'clock. About 35 tents remained all of the big tents had been taken down the statue of Gandhi was gone and it really I talked to a number of the cops who were stationed there and they said very clearly they don't want to they don't want to go out of arresting people or pushing people out. They figure it's just going to be a very slow movement. Maybe today and tomorrow there might be a few stragglers and then they're going to do something but they think this weekend calls the end of it

don't think the people are going to come back. I think that probably the city's learned not to let him return home or attend. This is going to be like Zuccotti Park. You're welcome to demonstrate come back and do it during the day but no more overnight encampments. There has been some talk about whether people from other Occupy Wall Street movements from D.C. or from New York will actually come to Boston because Boston is really set apart in the sense that you know there have been violent clashes in New Orleans in Oakland in New York. And somehow Mayor Menino was able to maneuver in such a way that he was able to avoid all of that. And even wall the wall the Occupy Boston is going on I live not far from there you know food trucks would pull up and all the people who work in the financial buildings around would come down and line up at the food trucks and it would just sort of co-existed very nicely a Dewey Square. So I don't know if something more is coming but so far so good for the way the city's been dealing with.

Yeah the city dealt with it well I think. We talked about this a little bit before. I think that the Occupiers are looking to get thrown out. There's any question that they were hoping that this was going to end before the real WENT TO started. And I think Boston police and the mayor were smart in sorting letting it fizzle but drawing a line in the sea. I personally think it went on too long but if this is the outcome and it's not a violent outcome which would give them more stature then I think it's better than it was in Oakland anyway so that's a good point. The more violent the outcome the more stature they get will actually. Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis was down there this morning too. He says they're just looking things over and making sure that his you know that nothing dramatic had taken place. You know I guess I don't know if he'd ever been down there before or not or this is his first visit down there but I did read a figure this week that is there all over the place that it costs the city of Boston about $800000 in overtime which is actually not that much considering it went on for. You're going to have two months and there are police on duty all the time I mean you never went

down there and didn't see police no matter what day it was. You know since September 30th when it started I also think there's a much more important question here of the message and what is the message actually disseminate in a way where people were able to leave because their message had reached where it wanted to go was another month or three weeks or six months of camping out going to do anything and I I don't know that it was I think what the whole that whole phrase of the 99 percent has indeed been adopted. You heard Barack Obama in Kansas this week say the 99 percent well would he have said that if there'd been no Occupy Wall I don't think so. The message to get through. Agree. Well I'm not sure I agree. I think that. That this whole message about the lack of opportunity for the middle class about the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few is a message the Democrats have been beating the drum on for a couple of years now. This is it's a standard complaint and there's been a lot of people focused on this. I think that Occupy Wall Street and the whole Occupy movement was as a consequence of this discussion it wasn't the

product of two were about this. It is not what created this I may have come up with the name of 99 percent but aside from that I think it was a result of a lot of the discussion that's going on and I'm not sure that Occupy Wall Street's got done anything in terms of helping people come up with solutions I think the focus the media focus on their tactics has taken away sometimes I think from the message. I don't even know what the message is sometimes I don't know if they know what the message was or say that I think you know what the message was but they didn't have solutions. And that's and I'll tell Mrs. of the whole movement as they were coming up with solutions. So it had an empty ring to it in my mind anyway and that I will tell you that the time they lost me was when a group of the Occupy people marched on the Israeli consulate and demanded the objection from the country of all Israeli officials. Well to me that was nice. Where did that kindness. I think both the Occupy movement and the Tea Party movement suffer from some of the same problems which is they contain extremists within them which tends to turn people off. But I also think they have some of the same successes which is

their issues get put into the lexicon at the same time that people are saying you know I'm not really a fan of the Tea Party are not really fanned Occupy Wall Street but they hear the message the more sort of mainstream message like I'm not happy with the government you know sort of throw the bums out or gee there's too much division between with the top havin and the middle class have the people themselves I don't know that people can identify with them somewhere really disagree with you is the Tea Party was not leaderless and the Tea Party was willing to a certain agenda there's a number of groups but they all have leaders and they very quickly moved to get rid of some of the racists in the in the Tea Party case the really extreme racists. They shut them down. You never saw that shutdown occurring from the Occupy people because their whole their whole methodology is that there is no leader there's no spokesperson There's no agenda. And so nothing is wrong to say Yeah I think with a share is that they will both at least at this source populist movements that are opposed to big big government big business and the combination of big government big business which is I think what a lot of. Will come out of this. People are frustrated and they feel left out whether they're on the

left or on the right they feel left out of the system and they feel helpless and the system is not working for them anymore. I have to say to that I think that the media did a really good job kind of sorting out the message for them. They might not have wanted the media to do that but they did. I mean they certainly didn't want that I agree. They didn't want that they wanted it to be a murky message and yet when you think about all that the attention this thing has gotten is really pretty phenomenal. Not just in Boston but across the country so with reports on the networks and radio and TV like this over and over and over again that that message got sifted in a way that was more helpful to them then that then they wanted to maybe my favorite my favorite sign that I saw was actually in New York was held by one of the Occupy people and it said we're here we're unclear get over it. That is what I think Jim is exactly right. That I think people have been saying gee we've been let down by a series of institutions right whether it's Congress or bank bailouts you know a bunch of people have just really sort of

people at the top have not done what they needed to do to help people in the center and that's what you're hearing from both sides and so I think they're successful in that sense. Although you're certainly right Tom that they they themselves could not articulate what the agenda was. All right speaking of articulating things this week it was a Democratic debate at Stonehill College Democrat Elizabeth Warren was also shown to be in the lead in a head to head with Scott Brown was almost like that. There is no point in having a primary but she's leading the pack in the PRI there is an even done a poll out of the primary because there's no need to but this poll that came out at UMass Lowell poll showing Scott Brown or Liz Boren leading Scott Brown by about seven points. That came out the day after. Actually it's the same night maybe that there's this debate at Stonehill College and both her. Her Democratic contenders and the media try to get her to focus on the issue of Occupy Boston. And here's what happened.

Everyone has to follow the law or yes or no. Everyone has to follow the law including the people on Wall Street. Do you think that the protesters are doing square should be allowed to spend the winter there yes or no. I actually believe that people have to follow the law. I think so with Deputy yes or no. I think people have to follow the law. That was just mindlessly wow she really had a bad politician and then no offense taken on one of her one of the contenders came back Maria de Franco with this. When you are say that everyone has to follow the law it actually bothers me because it makes a presumption that people are breaking the law. Sometimes let me finish and you know what Rosa Parks broke the law. There is such a thing called as a tradition in this country and civil disobedience. I thought that was a good comeback. Yeah great. Back. But Elizabeth Warren is going to have to sharpen her message to me. Tim tell us what goes on in these meetings with your advisers and all these do they say don't say anything stay the same message don't don't veer off track to say the same thing over and over and over again do they tell you to do what they say.

And this is the classic is don't answer the question that's asked just give you points. Whatever point you come in with those little points you give over and over and over again and it's why a lot of people get turned off to debates. Because we always hear you talking so annoying. It's the talking points but to defend her and those of us who've been in those you say one thing you go off the talking points like Rick Perry did a few months ago and forget what your talking points are. And that becomes the message so I can understand why you're almost forced to do that because the press will the political press will take that one thing you say that's off the point and that'll be the story and you don't want that to be the story so there is what she's showing is tremendous discipline. And I think that that's going to help her because she is the favorite. There's really only two of them right now her and Scott Brown so anything either one of them says over the next what we have over 11 years ago is going to be picked apart so they both Scotts the same way. Senator Brown is disciplined sometimes you won't say anything he's so disciplined but that's a key point.

I wish there was less of that but I do understand part of the reason why that happens. One of the things that's on Elizabeth Warren side is that nobody's watching no primary and I will NOT a televised debate I should add. Right exactly and frankly if she had said the protesters should move out of Dewey Square it would have been a headline right. Warren says protesters should leave or is she said you know I totally back them. Stay through the winter. That would have been a headline. So what she was doing is saying I'm not going to make news here I'm really not interested in doing that. And so even though it does sound idiotic when you play it I think in the in the end she she won right because she wasn't being watched anyway and she didn't make any news. Nobody noticed it. You know what her answers were. It was the equivalent of a no comment. That's exactly what she was doing. I think that one of the things about debates that I think is that very few people watched the debate but everyone will read about him afterwards and that's where the press can really control them so if you don't say anything. You know that is high profile stuff you can

get away with and if you're the leader which she is right now she doesn't want to say anything she's sitting on the lead now there's a danger there is Martha Coakley found out. When you sit on a lead sometimes that lead goes Mitt Romney Mitt Romney same thing. You sit on that lead too long and he can turn on you and then you can lose control of it so that's going to be a challenge for her to want to engage and went to sort of stay above the knee. You've both been in politics so you may disagree with me on this but the media isn't always your enemy. You know sometimes you know the minute is your friend. There are times when times an interview or a debate performance or whatever it is can also catapult you into the spotlight in a very positive way for some of the is said and it just seems to me that as as this campaign goes on she may be playing it smart right now but she's going to have to. No one knows anything. So if you if you don't take a position on something you know it's just it's just too foggy the whole thing is she's a Democrat so she must be a liberal. But if you don't take a position no one knows anything.

Yeah but the problem by taking a position is she's made that statement about being the foundation for Occupy and that was made into a negative 30 second ad by Karl Rove's group. So that is the problem with taking positions is anything you say can and will be used against you in a 30 second ad. So it's a fine line but I gree with you it's she's not going to be able to run out the clock. I don't think at all. I think one dynamic that is acting upon the Scott Brown Elizabeth Warren race in that frankly is completely outside their control is the whole Obama New Gingrich Mitt Romney dynamic. You know and Obama sitting at the top of the ticket in 2012 in Massachusetts is going to help us with more and it may not in other places but it will in Massachusetts Martha Coakley was dealing with a different situation than an actual election and held in January. Exactly exactly. So it took really motivated people. This is this is going to be a different situation. And I also think and we haven't gotten to this yet but I do think that the rise of Newt Gingrich. In some ways in a state like Massachusetts

helps. Elizabeth Warren because it turns voters off to the Republican Party to the alternative. And it makes them worry that the Republican Party's extremists and again it completely depends on what state you're in but I think these things are really they're really hurting Scott Brown and he hasn't done anything particularly but they're hurting him anyway. But I also think that that's why I'm not sure I attach a lot of importance to the poll. It is 11 months away. Newt Gingrich is not going to be the nominee but he can really no matter who the nominee I agree with that he is not going to be the nominee. Oh I mean you're starting to see the pushback from within the Republican Alan Simpson the Simpsons drenching him right now. Brutal. I don't know that people care what people inside the Beltway. They do thing Alan Simpson is a voice beyond the beltway. He has been anyway. Yeah but most people don't know who Alan Simpson. I mean he's certainly revered but I don't know that most people know but remotely It's right up there that said that and that is that that is the point I agree with Carol that most people it would be a badge of honor for Newt to be trashed by the insiders. But some of those insiders will

matter in Iowa in New Hampshire in the primaries and that's where it will. It could be like the the the Cain issue just be a pile on attempt that eventually people are just going to drop him so I mean this AP reporter Steve peoples has put out this posits this theory that this is all part of Mitt Romney's master game plan that he doesn't really care whether he wins Iowa or New Hampshire because of the proportional voting now that this primary battle is going to go well into the summer and then eventually he will end up being the front runner because it will be like the Obama Clinton race where they were both in it right until last. Second and I think it's clearly you know there's a lot to be said for that because Mitt has the money Mitt has the organization in the machine. He's much better position to sustain a long long campaign. But I think that's one of the reasons the Republicans set it up this way. It could backfire and I think it the difference here is you have an incumbent president who has no primary who can spend all of his time and money and team focusing on that race

and I think this some of this back and forth some of the Herman Cain stuff some of the Rick Perry stuff hurts the brand. Yes. And so and it's going to give the Democrats that much more time to you know anything used against Mitt or against Newt by their opponents is going to be used by the Democrats to hammer home sell. I don't think it's a grand plan. I think if they had to do it over again given that Midway has come out so strong and everyone else is so weak they like to end it as quickly as they can I don't think they will but I think that why did they do that. Why did they make it a proportional voting. I think for the same they assume because it worked so well for the Democrats yes it would work well that having a longer race would work and I think and by the way I feel like it is working yeah. I mean I had a look at the candidates who have risen and sort of the voters the Republican voters become infatuated with them. And then you have a couple of debates and also it's like Oh Michele Bachmann's full audio Let's go out on someone else and then you know you see it with Perry and you see it with Cain. I actually think that this whole primary process and along we haven't even

had the first one of course but the whole lengthy process is a really great way to vet these candidates and really probes their weaknesses and strengths. Yes but I would say we only have a matter of weeks until the first primary and Newt Gingrich is doing incredibly well he's he's almost double Mitt Romney in Iowa. And not only is he gaining in New Hampshire he's well ahead in Florida. So I think Romney better get on it soon if he hopes to make some sort of proportional run at this because Newt Gingrich who I completely agree with you he has problems as a as a columnist I saw said even his baggage has baggage. But you know he is really captured the imagination right now and he's doing this kind of jujitsu thing where everybody who attacks him like The Simpsons like the Tom Coburn Senator from Oklahoma he just says Yeah well of course people inside the beltway don't like me that's because I shake up Washington you know he uses it all sort of to his very smart. Yes exactly. I mean Iowa has always had proportional voting. So and I can remember the last time the winner

of Iowa actually went on to be the president's been awhile. Yeah and one thing that the new guy doesn't have that you needed to win a primary election is organization has no organization and at the end of the day that's why John Kerry won the Iowa caucus because he had a tremendous organization Howard Dean was the favorite. He had all kinds of people all kinds of press but had no organization in Iowa and that's why he was defeated by a small number of votes and that took John Kerry right to you know to the finals in that race so I think it's going to be a big lift for Newt. And even though it is a short period of time with all the focus and the Internet and the news they'll be eight different stories a day. I knew and I think it will. I think it I think it has to chip away. The big problem for Romney though is if he comes on too strong and too negative. That's going to hurt him as well if he has to be beating him up. I think that we can draw on me all the way to the end. Well Mitt Romney's recent a ad against Newt Gingrich is a basically a sort of covert New Gingrich has had three wives

and I don't know if you've seen this ad how he's got Chris Christie his surrogate out there saying you know want to you know you don't want to trust somebody who is so changeable and who could embarrass us in the White House in the Oval Office that is a quote from Chris Christie and if that is not an allusion to Bill Clinton. I mean they are really trying to bring out the big guns and say you seen what Newt Gingrich has done in the past do you really want that to happen again while he's president trying to Karen Miller Tom Kean and Tim Cahill This is our Week in Review for the Emily Rooney show. One thing before we move on I'm a little surprised that people haven't come out of the woodworks to announce for the fourth congressional district or the reconfigured district I should say I don't even know what number it's going to be at this point. Boston City Councilor Michael Ross is forming an exploratory committee I would have thought. Far more people especially from the Democratic side. I think everyone's waiting for what Joe Kennedy does maybe added a third yes third yes that third fourth there and I think the fourth you know what. I think it's the thorn It's the third.

I'm pretty sure that there is a third Yeah I don't know call it Joe but I know I know I'm pretty sure it's the third. Yeah yeah I think one of the issues I mean I think reason wise Setti Warren who I think would have been a candidate kind of people do that and Alan Casey would have been a candidate or could have been a candidate kind of jumped in and jumped out of the Senate right makes him look bad. Yeah so because normally you're right. Already three of four big name Democrats getting in the race but I think Tom's point is well taken I think if Kennedy gets in the race he changes the dynamic. But right now Michael Ross Right I think looks like Ross doesn't even live in the district and has never has a Senate that doesn't live in this mission help I don't know just out of my district now that I was up in the distance I will tell you is the city council who tried to run for your congressional seat and actually did live in that congressional seat it's pretty hard as a city council it is to make that jump. I don't know how Ross makes the jump from being a Boston City Council to representing a community that he hasn't represented ever in his life. Well he's already using the name of his father in the Holocaust and you know it's a very large community as well.

Yes and he grew up in Newton and I feel like that's the theme this year. I mean Keating's moving to his other home. And and Barney Frank says I don't want to move and you know everything like everybody sort of has to move to make this work. And Joe Kennedy would have to move from Brighton to Cambridge to try to do this so I mean you're not seeing Michael Ross I mean he said those those things don't matter. OK well I'll tell you. Can even third already did move apparently because he was out on the Cape he was working for the other but still not in the district that I think he simply is timelike between Britain and Cambridge. But all right it'll be interesting to see. You're listening to the Emily Rooney show when we continue will respond to some of your emails tweets and Facebook. Messages as we do every Friday. And Emily Rooney will be right back. This program is on WGBH thanks to you. And the Joan and James Vernon Cancer

Center at Newton Wellesley hospital striving to provide patients with expert Cancer Care innovative services and treatment options information at NWA h dot org slash cancer. And the school of the Museum of Fine Arts presenting their art sale December 8th to 11th where art lovers can discover the school's emerging artists. It only happens once a year. What will you find. S f m a dot edu slash art sale. Wrong number on the next FRESH AIR we listen back to an interview with soul singer Howard Tate. He got a second chance after he walked away from his career and eventually became homeless. He died last week at the age of 72. Also Werner Herzog talks about his documentary Cave of Forgotten Dreams. It's now on DVD. Join

us. This afternoon at two on eighty nine point seven. 2011 brought stories up uprising dates another bloody day here in Syria and rebuilding cantle Neda arrived in Tokyo to help haul garbage out of neighborhoods destroyed by the tsunami and falling in love. The best in the world the richer for. Herself too. What will 2012 bring make a tax deductible gift to support what's next. 8 8 8 8 9 7 9 4 2 4 4 give online at WGBH dot org. Celtic music best enjoyed with friends. Join me on Saturdays at 3 with the Celtic soldier and he 9.7 WGBH. Welcome back you're listening to the Emily Rooney show it's time to take a dip into our e-mail

bag as we do every time this Friday yesterday we heard from a healthy 21 year old who is donating one of his kidneys to a stranger. He had written a recent op ed in The New York Times suggesting that with so many people in need people should be allowed to sell their organs. We also talked to two medical people about the ethics of paying people for their organs. We had a lot of listener feedback on this one. Donna e-mailed us dear Emily Shame on you for expressing your ambivalence regarding organ donation. There is a sort of many organs that could otherwise Sabir prolong a life clearly you have not experienced having a loved one in need of an organ and being at the bottom of a long list receive on well actually Donna. I was only advising I was only questioning a 21 year old's decision to donate one of his kidneys and I have no ambivalence about donations. I'm for it. In fact I actually think it's OK to. Sell them if you want to. All right from Mark I wouldn't normally have an opinion on this subject but recently read an excellent book by Scott Carney about the red market and the pitfalls of paying or

getting paid for organs. I don't think it's a good idea in any society the dangers that way the good and the author of that book Scott Carney tweeted us saying the problem with legalizing kidney kidney sales in the USA is that the illegal market will boom. Then yesterday our resident insiders Jan ceremony and WGBH is Jared Bowen joins us with some suggestions for holiday happenings around the region. Jared suggested visiting Harbor sweets a sweets shop and candy factory in Salem. Deborah Gardner weighed in on Facebook with a recommendation of her own. If you're going to take a candy tour in Salem don't miss your old pepper candy company on Derby Street for a traditional old fashioned candy from the colonial period. We got to see them making candy canes on Sunday. And it was like Santas workshop. How sweet. Thanks for that. All right by the way if you missed either of those segments are available at our website at WGBH dot org slash Emily Rooney while you're there leave a comment. E-mail us at Emily Rooney show at WGBH dot org. All right returning to our theme of the week moving on and things like that I'm

joined here in the studio by former state treasurer Tim Cahill WGBH contributor Karen Miller and Boston Globe Magazine Contributor Tom Kean. Welcome. So. The other big news of this week was Bob Kraft and Steve Wynn Las Vegas casino developer teaming up to propose a casino in Foxboro they got a lot of pushback in fact there was a vote some kind of a city council vote or something last night not to allow this new zoning which would you know let people build buildings 300 feet tall among other things but I just honestly I don't know how you have because you can't get to a football game. I want to get to that to a casino and on that route one it's well you know we have to read you have to redo it would have to be closed on football games that's yeah there you go right to work. I mean it's it's it's what's going to happen over the next two years is it will happen and I don't know if the location I can argue the locations but as far as

traffic whether it's going to Boston Suffolk or Route 1 in Foxboro I don't either. It's going to be perfect for the traffic and how they're going to get people to and from it is going to be is going to be a real challenge I think from the people of Foxboro point of view I think they have a point they have to deal with that mess a number of times a year do they want to deal with it every day which they will be if there's a casino special Wynn casino there. So I think maybe they feel like enough is enough we've got a great relationship with the Patriots but it's limited as to how many times that traffic is a mess. Yes like eight times a year but I got to believe that it eventually that the town is going to come around on this and look at that from a jobs perspective I think that's exactly right. You know at this point you're just seeing pushback and anger but they haven't seen what's on the table. And when Kraft have yet to offer up all the goodies they're going to offer up. And I bet they'll be a lot and I bet a lot of be very attractive. Well if that's true I think that at least this is pushing when and craft to

really to really ante up here and really offer them a good package because I think the people of Foxboro when you talked about this on the political periscope on Monday I think. Put up with a lot. I mean they have to deal with a lot. And I think they're saying Yeah I don't know that we want thousands more people coming in every day and you know there's also obviously sort of social ramifications that go along with gambling. There's desperation and exactly exactly and I think people are rightly concerned about the effect that will have on Foxboro and in addition to the other kind of traffic and bars and restaurants they already have to deal with. Yeah and the other communities around Foxboro are going to weigh in on this or try to weigh in on this and because if they get none of the benefits financially they're going to be dealing with traffic issues of people moving into work at these casinos and whether there's enough housing there's really not a lot of certainly not a lot of low income or moderate income housing in that area for these folks to live in but so that the way the law works it's only Foxborough that has to vote right.

Yes. Why so yes around no. Sign off right. And so it really is this this is one of the weird things we have about how we govern ourselves in Massachusetts individual towns can make decisions that have huge impacts on surrounding towns and negative impacts and the other towns have no say in it whatsoever and that could very well happen in this case. Yeah yeah I mean it's I think it's a smart move on their part and if it's something that they plan to get it out this early but I think they knew everyone's known from the beginning that Suffolk Downs is going to be better for that. Yeah Boston license so they didn't get in early if you didn't partner up with someone of wins caliber as far as casinos go then he wouldn't have a chance. OK on that point does Foxboro Trump Suffolk Downs or could they each have one. Yes we want to I want to get to the last Suffolk Downs could get a slot parlor but I don't see one casino there Austin and they're all sort of the same I suppose considered greater Boston. Yes because is and then is Indian one which would be New Bedford and they

want a non Western in Central Mass I believe. I'm not exactly sure of that. And then there's the problem. And then there's the weight. Yeah you've already but you've already picked a location so I'm pretty sure Palm has been pushing for a lot yeah but you don't feel it's going to be in the next two I mean you know you might you'll see I wasn't really Western Mass It just feels that way. Yeah but they you know they'll be a battle I'm sure nobody's going to get a free shot at this. It will be a very competitive debate. And the other part of it is I think that's important is who gets out first is going to build the biggest and the best and get the most financial support investor support. Once you get past two of these I think the third one is going to struggle. And I think it's just going to be maybe just overbuilding at that point and then it will be a case much like it isn't in even in Connecticut or in Vegas in the bigger you have to keep adding and adding to get more people to come back. So it's a it's a game to the top and then we'll see what happens but it's going to be you know be lucrative for the state. But it there's a lot of issues as we've always said. I just always say

this if you know you think citing a school is hard in a community which it is. Try citing a casino and that's where it's going to get challenging is where is it going to go and how are the benefits and the traffic issues in the neighborhood going to be what at the end of the day that's where the Foxboro thing is is quite brilliant because the stadium is there. Yeah it's a few days a year right now that it's a nightmare. But the days with the casinos only will not be as bad as with the game. Clearly if wind's going to be building a billion dollar facility here there is an awful lot of money to scout around and there's awful lot that can be spent on it. Yeah and I think there's but there's some question about what the spillover will be and I have to say Mohegan Sun is a kind of it almost feels like a hermetically sealed place and I think that one of the questions is to what Tim said how are you going to position this so that the people around it do not feel like their lives are adversely affected. And I don't know how possible that will be.

Yeah and if these guys are big I mean you obviously have Kraft and you have way and then you have fields and you have many you know in Suffolk Suffolk I mean that's that's talking about a heavyweight battle. I mean a battle of the titans as far as the political in the business. Well Kraft owes nothing to me you know. Yeah i know i know i know. That's why it would be interesting. And I believe based on the legislation it would be taken away from the legislature and this commission and the commission will decide depending on who those members of the commission are so it will be it will be a lot of interesting newspaper stories written over the next six months to a year on this. All right talking to Tim Cahill Karen Miller and Tom Kean and switching directions here. I was reading those letters just a few minutes ago about this debate we had us about whether people should be allowed to sell their organs because there are so many people in need of healthy kidneys and young kid had written an op ed he was donating a kidney to a total stranger. Twenty one year old did it yesterday but he was making the argument that he should have been able to sell the kidney if you wanted to anyway we just got an interesting tweet from Tina

who tells us that Tim is a kidney donor. I figured my wife would weigh in on this. Yes tell me about that. I donated a kidney to my sister nine years ago that was back in that I didn't sell it you see dear I didn't just know not sure what you're supposed to do and you know I got it with you and I don't think you can. I don't buy the argument that you should sell these. I understand there's a need and there's not enough people to fill the need but I think Sally it's a slippery slope and when you talk about selling or giving people some financial benefit for it because if you don't make it for the right reasons. Yeah well but he's making the argument it's one thing for your sister or the child is about that of a relative. But he's saying most people don't have somebody that they can offer that they're willing to offer it so they're saying well if there's another kind of incentive if you know that thousands of people would be taken off these donor lists if it's not it's true but I just think selling organs is not a place for you.

I just. How's your sister doing. She's doing good. Very good very good. Yeah she's she's fine. Now that was one less kidney that thing was a major operation when you had it. It is yeah. And now they do it laparoscopically. You know what my I was laparoscopic Yes. Yes so it's still major it's a major surgery yeah it's a funny thing about it is that you know the medical profession really doesn't tell you all that's involved in it because they want your kidney. If you live in fear if you're qualified don't stuff so you go into it not thinking it's that big a deal. And it's a safe it's extremely safe and everything is No I don't think anyone's have died from it but it's it's still painful. You just recover a little bit quicker with the laparoscopic than you do from the fall and fall type says but it's still very painful. Yeah but no after effects I mean as far as you know as far as my lifestyle or anything because they do say that the one kidney I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS GROSS Yeah yeah fills the space that you only need one. Well there's this kind of I wonder about I got to you know it is partially marketing I mean I really think if there was an effort made to tell people

maybe that you know the surgery has gotten better this is how you could become an organ donor. I think it's sort of talked about in these small ways but there isn't a real push. I do think there are a lot of generous people I was actually listening to report on NPR the other day and I think they were talking about donating bone marrow and how much easier it is gotten and how much what you can sell that now you know that. No I yes I knew as of this week Congress decided that you can sell bone marrow you can sell sperm you can sell eggs you can sell blood. There's a court ruling excuse me that the bone marrow you can see here this is why it's it's like you know some things you can think it is a slippery slope but I. There is no one cell and it's it's not. I find it distasteful in a way but I really do believe it would increase dramatically the supply of organs available to people. But my argument is I think people are generous and they are good hearted and I do think that if there was a real marketing effort like you got some great. I

know this sounds crass but some great advertising minds on this problem and try to figure out how to let people know they could you know donate and it would not be painful and here's how you could do it and spread the stories like you see of St. Jude really spread the stories. Yeah I think it could be a much better effort could be. I think it will hospitals state more in touch with the donors and use the donors in that way then I don't know of a donor that wouldn't want to tell the story and again the stories all end up good you go through a little pain but at the end of the day you recover fine and and you feel really I mean it's nothing I've ever done in my life that makes me feel better than now. So and I don't think I'll ever do anything that will make me feel better than what I did for her and you know because you don't get that kind of a chance often so I agree I think marketing would be would be fine. And I do think and we passed a law that would penalize people for donating time and that's another thing that you know to lose a month away that's something I think you need to. That's would be I think 100 percent. Should should should be protected and should be encouraged that people should

have to pay. If they don't lose time for me it wasn't a bad thing because I didn't have sick time as the state treasurer and I went back to work when I was going to those jobs I did. But if someone is in a physical job it takes a while takes four times to have a good piece of his liver to do with a brother in law I think it was yes that was also major. Yeah yeah it's major but to Kerry's point I think we could market it better and get the donors to speak in a way that if they're encouraged to do that can I mean I've talked to a lot of people talk a lot of people through the surgery when they've decided to do it just to tell them the things that the doctors will determine. Yeah yeah and I don't want to know and I think people mostly want to know am I going to be OK after I do this. And if I'm going to be OK when I'm done. Yeah I mean this I can if it's for a family member or someone that you want to you just feel like you want to do it. Would you have done it for a stranger. I don't. Not with a family a wife and a family you know and it was tough even with a family to think about you know my sister but I still had kids and my wife but I don't I wouldn't

if I was single I might have but. I think the key is to make people aware that it's it's safe it's it's a good thing to do for both sides and it is actually better for the recipient if it's a live donor benefits cadaver much better as a result really. Well we got a little off subject here but that was fascinating. Thanks for sharing the time talking to Tom Kean Karen Miller and Tim Cahill. And we're going to take a short break when we return. Thumbs up thumbs down on the MLB new dress code for reporters. Or how about holiday cards. You're listening to the Emily Rooney show. We'll be right back in a flash. WGBH programs exist because of you. And Newberry court a full service residential community for persons over the age of 62. Newberry court invites you to schedule a

visit any day of the week including Saturdays and Sundays to schedule. You can visit Newbury CT dot org. And ten thousand villages now open in Boston's downtown crossing as well as Brookline Cambridge and Cranston. Ten thousand villages offers fairly traded handcrafted holiday home decor gifts and jewelry online at 10000 villages dot com. Wow. Next time on the World Climate Change meets politics. We meet here at a time when greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere have. Never been higher and expectations have never been lower. It's impossible to negotiate an agreement of such magnitude with 100 80 countries. The final day for the U.N. conference on climate change next time on the world. Coming up at 3:00 here on eighty nine point seven WGBH.

I'm Brian O'Donovan. The holidays can be quite a hectic time which is why it's important to set aside some time to enjoy the songs and sights of the festive season with friends and family. That's what a Christmas Celtic social is all about. And after bringing the show to sold out audiences all across New England we're coming back home to Boston. The center 16 for three days of shows at the cut the Majestic Theater. Tickets are still available but act fast they won't be for long. Secure seats of WGBH or Celtic. How did today's innovators plan to tackle America's greatest challenges. I'm Karen Miller. That's it we talk about each week on innovation hub tomorrow morning at 7:00 here on eighty nine point seven. Welcome back you're listening to Emily Rooney show it is time for our ever popular thumbs up thumbs down segment. Let's hear a little bit more of that tune here.

If you know what this band is. But I know the song I don't know the band I know the scientists are the totally blank here. You to tamper. With. His thinking because you really hard. But you. Know the down one of one of our one of our guys down to. You have you got a cheat sheet there. No we're not Donna. But but this is a this is a band that's going to was just inducted into the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. It is the faces. That morphed into the Small Faces that was a thumbs down but you know thumbs up that they've gotten elected why not you know. Absolutely it's a great song. Yeah. Donna there is also I love Donovan. Yeah but rock n roll he was just on the cusp of rock n roll was kind of country not love that loved on all right what else we got here. Thumbs up thumbs down on Madonna being selected to play the Super Bowl halftime. Madonna any time Madonna appears anywhere in fact that may be the only reason I watch the Super

Bowl My sister told me a couple weeks ago. Guess what you're going to love this Madonna will be at the Super Bowl and I say is that this weekend. Oh and I was like oh my god I'm so bad at it I noticed I'm going to say thumbs down and I say thumbs down. In general the Superbowl musicians it is so many aging rockers the best body of work is from a generation ago and then they bring them up in front of a national stage. I'd love to have someone who's like oh it's the last year I just Della black I do feel like they were there I was out to get well you know they were there but there was a great song was that it was a decade ago I mean you know this current I agree with you that all the old like the who when they who was there what was that was so awful and I think Madonna the same way. There isn't anything good out of Madonna in the last five years. Yeah but they're not going to pick Gaga that she would know that you see. It was great that would be great but now that the and I know that they still want to burn this you know Jackson and you don't I mean my God. Yeah I know I'm pretty close to getting to some of those she was hit where I don't know. I won't tune into the halftime show.

I welcome a I don't care what you just said I don't like to watch anyway so somebody says you know the prince was incredible I remember him performing at the Super Bowl. Yeah I don't think he was I would forget to watch the halftime anyway. But I'll give it a thumbs up why not. All right thumbs up thumbs down. Ryan Seacrest is a potential replacement for Matt Lauer on NBC Today show. I already gave that a thumbs down to my wife this morning so you know I watched George Stephanopoulos or Charlie Rose if if Ryan's on the Today show. Thumbs up because finally the Today show is admitting what it really is which is you know what is the difference between us on the Today show anymore it's just missing people in Aruba cooking segments fashion and I will be checking out Charlie Rose also on CBS. Kerry's right it is actually a thumbs up because this is what the Today show is all about. But too bad for the Today show. To do that for Matt Lauer I mean they reckon like he said he's a goner I mean just cause his contract is up that mean he's going to be fired.

Probably go shopping which negotiation doesn't he make like 17 million dollars there you probably there probably think that stuff you want but Mariah is right rest probably won't come cheap. Yeah I mean yeah I don't know we have like 14 other jobs. Maybe their time and they're ready to move to somebody younger. All right this one got a lot of play this week but we got away in a two thumbs up thumbs down on the unsportsmanlike conduct ruling at that Cathedral High School game where the they took the game away from the kid for putting his hand into the air when he was making a touchdown they would have won the Super Bowl. But the whatever that stands for took it away from thought this is I mean only put his hand in the air. This was trivial gesture I can't believe they took away that win. Well OK so I'll just say I was watching the halftime show. So I really don't I dig it because I mean this was a national story I heard about this on all things I know better. And and I. I think I do think sometimes it is tough to draw these lines but they're trying to sort of enforce a certain kind of sportsman like behavior and I think they did have to draw the line somewhere. And yeah this seems like a gray

area and it's kind of messy and ugly but but maybe you have to do it. Yeah I I think that's the judgment the referee's judgment I think was flawed. It was nothing taunting about what he did. He just put his hand up for a second and then gave the ball to the referee I feel bad for both teams. The team that lost obviously but even the team that won it takes the asterisk on their bad for that poor kid who you know I understand the rule about celebration and taunting and stuff but referees have to use more judge this because it's not just you know it was used not excess is the thumbs down but I can say two thumbs down. Schools take these things way too seriously. It's just a wrong emphasis on stuff. Well this is where it's something called a Super Bowl in Massachusetts they're going to take it seriously. Right. All right thumbs up thumbs down on the L B's new dress code for reporters no flip flops. No no showing your underwear. No excessively short skirts no muscle T-shirts. You got thumbs up on this one. Good for them. I'm glad to see the self-policing and I know

what they're reacting to that there was an incident that's been occurring in soccer where you have some reporters completely out of line in terms of dress and obese trying to stop this and I think it's a good thing. When you talk about those reporters you talk you and women this is aimed at women I think. It totally muscle T-shirts. Nobody's ever worn a muscle. Yeah yeah. No that's absolutely right there was you know great commentary on ESPN by a woman who said I've been a sports reporter for a long time. I have never seen a male sports reporter wear a muscle T-shirt. Yeah exactly I think they were trying to say oh well this is gender neutral it's not really about women it heavily about I'm up. Oh yes so it thumbs up. I mean if it's not you know thems up I think some of the ways that women dress in those situations. That's the whole point. That's the only reason they're there. Well I mean if they were your men out of something. Yes I mean that's why they were hired let's face and that's what they're there for.

So so in fact what MLB is doing is a fight for women in this case by saying let's professionalize sports writing and saying it isn't just about so I agree with that now they're going to have to pick women who can actually write. Yeah. Or it will be shocking the people from the print side is one thing but you know that's that's well you know people like Heidi want me and Tina survives you know their children then that's because Nessun controls them they work for the Red Sox. And she's very beautiful but they're not going to hire some high do not mean she can't she can wear something nice without violating the dress code. She works for the Red Sox so she wouldn't be she would be allowed to violate the dress code. But I'm saying some other women that's who this is pointed out. But then my point is I think this was this calls for is an Occupy Wall. That's right you guys know where you stand I take everything well you know I didn't even think I didn't know that there was even came out this one I wasn't even aware of but hearing the women's point of view makes it kind of interesting but I think it's a waste of time actually. All right speaking of baseball. Thumbs up thumbs down on Albert Pujols.

Two hundred fifty five pools. Yes he's ditched the Cardinals in favor of a ten year two hundred fifty five million dollar contract with the loss with Los Angeles like the thumbs up. I mean too bad for the Cardinals but hey it's not something I thought was Albert that's for sure. Thumbs up for Al but I think the I think it's a big mistake for the buyer here. Yeah ten years he's 31 years old. You know I mean good God love what he was the best player in baseball but he's getting paid for the last 10 years. You know 10 year contract it hasn't worked out they're going to get five years out of him. As it worked out great for A-Rod I think it may if it brings him a championship for the ages I think L.A. is is I mean I say thumbs up I think at least thinking like a multi-prong strategy here they've got a lot of Latino's they've got. There's multiple markets they can they can market to and then also his merchandise has been flying off shelves and I think they're going to capitalize on that issue. Yeah. All right quickly a couple Christmas related thumbs up thumbs down in Massachusetts. Thumbs up thumbs down on a bill that will allow liquor stores to open on the day after Christmas sun's up

thumbs up thumbs up but why. I was up for the Monday Monday I know but he was arguing that you should need to go to liquor store the day after Christmas right. I was up thumbs down on holiday cards you know I want to that I know that's ridiculous I come off like a really complicated advent calendar one that's pretty often actually comes up. I always like cards of any sort. I like to traditional cards also. All right. Thumbs up thumbs down on traditional holiday music versus you know thumbs ups and just gimme gimme and I don't like the 24/7 holiday stuff. I love holiday music in doses. Yeah yeah. But those stations that go 24/7 from thanks from Halloween on it just kind of roll it's a holiday for me. I feel the same way like the old music too not the remake I don't like Mariah Carey singing that stuff. You know I'm thumbs up on it comes up on it. I kind of neutral on it but my favorite is happens to be the John Lennon. And so this is Christmas right. I can't get enough of that

yeah I think I like them. All right thank you to Tom Kean Karen Miller and Tim Cahill that's going to do it for us this afternoon. We're back Monday at noon. Forget Iowa forget New Hampshire some political observers say we might be looking at a long Republican primary battle. We talk about that plus some decorating tips for The Perfect Holiday Home. Stay with us now for the Kelly Crossley Show and tune it up Beat the Press tonight at 7:00. We'll address that Major League Baseball dress code for reporters which is clearly aimed at women. The Emily Rooney show is a production of WGBH radio on the web at WGBH dot org. Boston Public Radio and Emily Rooney have a great ending.