Focus 580; Missionary Doctoring In Africa

In this part of focus 580 we'll be speaking with Dr. Susan Nagl she is a physician. She's also a lay missionary lay Catholic missionary will be talking with her about some of her experiences providing medical care in Africa to some places that are very remote where people certainly need the help. She is an Urbana girl she grew up in Urbana she attended to the University of Illinois and then went to medical school at Southern Illinois University and when she finished her training she decided that she really did indeed want to go to a place in the world where people needed help very much and so she settled on Africa. And over the past 20 years she has lived and practiced in several places in Africa in Tanzania in Sudan and Kenya and much of her energy and her medical work has been devoted to providing care for women and children. She is here visiting in Champaign-Urbana her parents still live here. So she's back on a rare visit and we thought would be interesting to have her here in the studio to talk a little bit about her experiences. And I'm pleased that she could be with us. Of course questions are welcome. 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 toll free 800 2 2 2 9 4 5 5. Well thank you very

much for being here. Thank you it's an appropriately sized and an honor to talk with you today. What you did when you were a little girl you didn't start out thinking that you would be a doctor at what point in your life did you start thinking that you would like to go to med school and train and be a physician. I was always interested in health care. I was a candy striper at Mercy Hospital. And so as is typical I started thinking about nursing. But when I was in high school I more seriously considered becoming a physician. And as I went to through my training became more clear that I really want to try to figure out what was the problem with the patient. And that being a physician was what I was really interested in. So you went to school here you got an undergraduate here in biology then you went on to Southern and got your med degree there. Yes and then after that I did a family practice residency program in Carbondale that was three years. And when I finished the residency program that's when I decided that it was a good time to do some missionary work that would take a few years because I didn't have a private practice and overhead and a lot

of responsibility. What made you decide that that was what you wanted to do rather than than going out and doing it. Starting into a more conventional kind of medical practice. When I was in college I had done a lot of voluntary work. I had worked in Appalachian with the Newman Center on vacations. I had gone to Nicaragua for a month doing a vaccination program. And when I was a medical student I did two weeks in the Dominican Republic with a Christian medical and dental society. And each of those volunteer experiences was a very good I really liked them. I liked working in cross-cultural situations I felt like I had skills that could help in those areas but for a very short time you can learn a language or really understand the culture. So I wanted to do something for a longer period of time. And I also wanted knew that if it was going to be for a longer period of time I would need some support spiritually as well as physically and financially. And so I wanted to

go with the Catholic Church because that was my faith background. And I also wanted to. Have the opportunity to marry I didn't want to be a sister and so at that point in the mid 80s probably the organization that had the most experience with lay people in an overseas mission and the Catholic Church was Mary no. And that's the Catholic foreign overseas foreign mission society and congregation. And so I contacted them and and they interviewed me and accepted me and chose to go to Africa. So it was it was it your choice to go to Africa or did they say to you we think we would like to send you to Africa. They gave me the opportunity to say where I was interested. I think thinking that given I had been in Latin America that I would be interested to go back to Latin America at that time in the 80s the countries that would have been open to having a physician work were in the middle of a lot of conflict and turmoil Nicaragua was at war. Bolivia had a lot of problems and I personally at that point did not want to work in a war situation. I

also for no good reason could say why I felt called to go to Africa. But that's where I felt like I should go and so I told them that hoping that they wouldn't think I was crazy and they didn't and they actually it's a very needy continent and they had places where they needed physicians there. Tanzania in particular which was a very peaceful country. And so the fit for both my needs and their needs was good and they could match it. You you went there as a physician to you to provide medical care what exactly does it mean to be a lay missionary. And is there do you see some kind of religious component to what it is that you do. As a physician I could go with any non-governmental organizations such as MIT sensible or one of the U.N. organizations and they're all very good organizations. But for my own personal needs I wanted to practice medicine in a more holistic

faith filled way. I didn't want it just to be the job I was doing but the life that I was living. Particularly given that I'm from a Catholic tradition I wanted to be able to live in a community where people tried to improve the community we all worship in the same church we try to improve our lives the lives of women and children and those that are less fortunate. And so in marrying all lay people. I have the opportunity to participate through the church not just the healthcare but in other areas of life such as Human Rights War improvement of the community with the support of the church and the local people as well. I have always worked as a physician under the health care provided by a Catholic diocese in another

country. So there's a local church there there are people who say these are our needs and this is what we would like you to help us with. Does that limit what you can do with your practice. The church organizations that are available have usually been very simple and I've had to build them up so I'd say basically I've always worked in places where there's been a tremendous need and I was starting at the beginning in places where there were no other physicians trying to work with the nurses and the. Clinical officer which would be similar to physician assistance in trying to get them to work to their full potential. Teach them as much as possible and then move on someplace else. I guess I'm just thinking out I hate to go right to such controversy on subject right so early in the conversation but for example you spend a lot of time working with with women providing obstetric care working with women and children and I think there are probably a lot of people who are

argue one of the things that developing societies need is some help with family planning and that being if you're going to work in a Catholic context then there are some things that you can do or will do or there are some things that you won't do. How for example if if that's what you're you're doing and you're trying to provide some basic sort of information and basic health care to people and you look at something as basic as that. How do you approach that. In the beginning in Tanzania the area was very rural and I can really only remember one time when I wanted to use contraceptives in a woman who had a heart condition and her husband had more than one wife. And so I talked with the husband explaining that I wanted to. Help her stabilize her heart condition and that in order to do that she couldn't become pregnant and he was very much against that. And basically I never saw her again. And the church

wouldn't have any problems with using contraception for medical conditions generally in Tanzania I did not have women coming to me asking for contraceptives they had much more day to day survival issues. And most of the time I think women in Africa want to have a good number of children but they need time in between their children in order to be stay healthy and be able to provide for their children and most of the time when they want to do some kind of family planning the difficulty comes with their partner. And you have to have some kind of. Relationship between the two of them in order to make sure that you don't cause difficulty. In general though I would say the most important thing in terms of family planning is the education of girls and women. And if you can put your emphasis

in that area those girls and women will choose partners who will work with them and then they will be able to find ways to manage their families the way it's best for them. Well that points at something and that is what I'm sure is a line that you always have to walk between you're looking at the people that you're you're trying to help and work with and you're thinking about what you think that they need and what they think that they need and where the primary direction comes from whether you indeed take your take your lead from what people are telling you that they need the kind of help that they're looking for. And maybe there are cases where immediate needs are very obvious. Nobody needs to telling anybody else it's you can just look at the person and realize what they mean. You know but but I mean during this course between what what people are looking for what they come to you for and then you're thinking well they would really be good if I could do these things I mean how do you move between those two

points. The the most urgent problem that comes to my mind in Kenya at the moment where I'm working is the whole problem with AIDS. And the biggest problem with treating patients with AIDS in that country at the moment is the shame and stigma that's associated with it. So in order to try to address the issue first of all you have to find out who's infected and who's not. And there are government programs as well as church sponsored programs to screen people. And so we try to encourage that. We also try to work at educational levels to teach people that this is a disease. This is something that can be treated now and that people can live for years with it. And if we don't find out who's sick and start them on treatment parents are going to die and they're going to be a lot of orphans left with nobody to take care of them. So it's a very multi-factorial problem that you can't just address from

the point of view of diagnosis and treatment. We start with that certainly at our health center and in the clinics with the diocese works with but we are also trying to work with schools with pastors village elders priests religious organizations so that they themselves can be well educated and try to change their opinion about the disease and how they're going to address it in the future. What about prevention. For AIDS Yeah. Yeah. There are several government programs. One is the prevention of mother to child transmission. So what we're trying to do is to screen all pregnant women to find out who's positive those that are positive are then given. Medication that can decrease a transmission from mother to child from 30 to 50 percent down to 10 as little as 10 percent. Those that are not

positive are educated as to how the disease is transmitted so that hopefully they can prevent that in the future. They also have a voluntary counseling and testing Center's program so there are centers that are trying to be set up all around the country where people can go to be tested find out whether they're positive. And then in those situations if they're negative they're counseled with how again how it's transmitted and how to prevent it. And if they're positive and they're referred for treatment immediately. Well I gets me back to that. I'm sorry again to go back to this but I guess we're back to condoms just because I think that there are some people who feel that the home that's one of the one of the one of the easiest and one of the least costly things that you could do to prevent the spread and the Catholic Church is not exactly high on condoms. How do you how do you look at that. This is basic mechanical snobbery expensive thing that you could do where the church says no we don't want you to do that. You also have to look at the cultural context that people are living in.

There is this recent study looking at the first sexual contact for girls in Kenya 30 percent of those girls were raped on their first sexual contact. So there's not an issue with. Using condoms in those situations. Also one of the biggest problems in the continent is war. And men who have guns demand what they want and there isn't an opportunity to say no or to decide whether or not you're going to use a condom. So in many of these situations that's not an issue at all. However that doesn't mean that people who have choices shouldn't be educated about the way the diseases spread and the way they can choose to to protect themselves. And I think that certainly in situations where women don't have control where there and in most cases in Africa women don't women are regarded as property. And when they are married they are required to provide certain services

for their husband and if he's not faithful to them then how is she going to protect herself. And I see that it's very important to try to educate women to to find ways that they can protect themselves. But if he's going to force her she is she's very limited in the choices that she has. Our guest this morning you know I'm I'm told I think I have been mispronouncing your name or not your name Negley. Yes. All right. My apologies believe me as someone who's gone through my life being mispronounced. It's something that I try to get right Dr. Susan Negley. She is a physician and has now for 20 years been living and practicing in Africa in Tanzania in Sudan and now in Kenya. She grew up here in Champaign Urbana is back home visiting parents and so she was good enough to stop by and spend more time talking with us about her work. 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 toll free 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5

Those are the numbers and we do have someone here who would like to join the conversation so we will get to them right on our line number one the callers in champagne. Hello good morning. Yes this is Barb Peckham and I just wanted to tell you that the Negley I admire so very much. Do you realize how much money she could be making here in America if she were a doctor and she is a part of my church. She's a member of our team our church. She comes to speak every once in a while and I am also a neighbor of Susan but she is such a wonderful giving person. And you know I want her to know that and I admire you so very much Susan. You were. A remarkable lady. Thanks Barb I'm I'm very grateful for your kind words. I certainly didn't come out of a vacuum. I grew up here in Urbana Illinois. I'm a

product of central Illinois and the good community that is here and so it's all of you who've made me who I am and have helped me to be able to do what I'm able to do in a place that doesn't have what we have here and so we're all in this together and I'm really grateful for everyone's support. And also Susan I just want to express my own personal opinion but I really feel like the Catholic Church should allow people to to use contraception. I feel like I'm a fairly devout Catholic but that is the one area that I I totally disagree with. And I'm hoping down the line that we're going to have a pope who feels the way that so many of American Catholics feel. So that's my personal opinion but again thank you so much for all that you do.

Thanks. All right well thanks for the CO other folks if you're interested in calling in you can do that 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 and toll free 800 to 2 2 9 4 5. I guess I'd have to say that I admire you too and that I would mire anybody who has you know such a strongly held belief and has decided that I have this ability and I'm going to go out and I'm going to try to do something constructive with it. And I guess you have to admire somebody who's like that now you're gave me to sort of a funny smile and and I'm sure that you hear that a lot from people and that probably you think to yourself well it's just what I do. I mean you're not going to propose yourself for sainthood. And I'm sure that you would like to kind of say well yeah OK that's that's very nice but how how do you do deal with all that admiration. Well I think first of all it's important to just remember that we are all human beings on this earth and so I didn't keep in mind that I'm just one of many many many people. I mean I don't

think that what I'm doing is terribly extraordinary. There are many other people who are doing the same thing I'm not the only one you just happen to know me and I happen to have the microphone at the moment. I think that all of us have to do what we're called to do and that that's the most important thing. And. In terms of financial remuneration and what I could be making in this country that's certainly not an issue for me for me the issue is that we all have what we need and I have never suffered. I've always had enough food in front of me even when I was in some of the starkest situations in southern Sudan. So I truly do believe that where ever I go if it's where I'm meant to be and if will be provided both now and when I'm old alone and and retired. But I think that you know if each one of us will try to do it we can do the world become a better

place. And I just have skills that can help people in Africa in a cross-cultural situation I have the ability to learn languages to understand in their culture what's causing them problems and to try and work with it and I'm grateful that I've been able to choose that. The difficulty is that I live with. If I had to work here in some more litigiousness difficulties I would be much less happy. You've been there now for 20 years. How much longer do you think you know we would want to live and work in Africa. For the moment this is certainly where my expertise is. I know Tropical Medicine very well particularly that related to East Africa. I know the language and the cultures of that area of the world and there's a tremendous need there. There's a big drain on health care workers in East Africa when. Nurses and physicians become educated particular families. They often want to move to areas where they can make more money and where they their

children can get better education. So for the moment I would see myself continuing in that part of the world because I I think mutually I have a lot to offer and they have a big need. Well we have some other people we can talk with we have somebody on cell phone. They're next in line. One number one. Well I was going to. Regarding the recent work of an African woman the Nobel Peace Prize and her quest for the environment and animal development and I wondering if you're seeing any sort of impact. With Dana on you know is it spreading is it impacting the areas where you are and how that could help improve the health care system in Africa. So you're referring to Wangari Maathai the Kenyan woman who was selected to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. Correct. Yes. Wangari Maathai is a wonderful woman and her whole aim is to try to improve Kenyan

society and therefore women and children and what you've seen up in impact and your areas first hand with in men in sustainable development and so forth. It's very slow. One of the big problems in Kenya is that there is a lot of corruption. They did peacefully elect a new government in 2002 who said that they would make it their priority to decrease corruption. Unfortunately they haven't succeeded in many Kenyans I think will tell you that they don't think that the current government is trying hard enough. So I would say that no at the moment we're not seeing a very. Good improvement in that area and I think a big problem is the corruption. OK thank you. Oh and thank you. Let's go to Savoy. That's the next car here Lie number two. Well I'm so glad to be able to speak with you. Was your father Tom.

Yes my father is Tom Nagel he was dentist in Urbana. Yes yes I'm very sorry I didn't get to meet you just a little girl I used to. Oh well let me go on to Africa. It is such a very large place it's easy for ordinary Hi guys like me to forget how hard it really is. Yes here just a few questions. Well some of the language use of the. Yours can you know speak the first language I learned was Swahili which is the national language in Tanzania. When I moved to southern Sudan I learned Juba Arabic which is a local trade language and it was actually very easy for me to learn it because half of Swahili is based on Arabic and their form of Arabic is very very simple. So I was able to speak that quite well. Then. I moved to an area where most people only spoke the local language which was to post. So I tried to learn that and I was fair at it I could certainly make my way through the

clinic but I couldn't hold conversations regarding day to day matters. And then moving back to Kenya I now use what he again. So there are three African languages that I'm able to speak to far better than the third accent. Were you anywhere near this place stuff. Darfur is in the west of Sudan. I was working in eastern equitorial province specifically in the Diocese of Tor it which is in the southeastern corner of Sudan. I worked there for 12 years and everything that occurred. With the war while I was there seems to have moved to Darfur. So it's a very troubling what's going on in that country because there was a peace agreement signed on January 9th of this year. And whereas that area of the country Aster Equinix Eastern equitorial no longer has bombing and shelling and fighting. It seems like the problem has just been moved to another part of

the country which is Darfur where you don't have to do some. What's going on over there. I think in 12 years yes I could get a pretty good idea of what was going on. What I want. I think one of the basic problems is that there are tremendous natural resources located in the south of Sudan. The biggest is probably oil but there's also minerals hardwood forests and very good farming land as well as people. And over the decades and centuries those resources have been exploited by the North and the Southerners have not been allowed to govern themselves. And the southerners want to govern themselves and have control over their lives and so when they don't have that opportunity they have gone to war first in 1905 and most recently in 1983. There are problems with religion in the country and people would like to simplify the problems and say it's a fight

against Arabs and Christians but I think that's much too simple. I think there are also a lot of other factors and it's a very complicated situation and the more you learn about it the more complicated it will become something that's gone on for this long will take a very long time to resolve. So it's a very very complicated situation in Sudan. Think about these junction we are. I never worked in Darfur and we did not have jungle weed in eastern Equatoria so I can't bribe the John Dewey. From what I understand our. Militia who are supported by the government to terrorize the local populations with the goal being. They would have to tell you that. OK well I want I want to make you I think you should get a little closer to the idea you think

yourself as being unusual I would say. Obviously a great and good thing if you're doing it right. Well I thank you for that go I will go on will go to Urbana and this lie number three. Hello hello. Yes this is Paul Goble. Hello Paul how are you. So nice to hear from you. I haven't had a fling myself. So isn't it. Where am I free of great wealth a high standard of living. You are familiar with the world of the have nots. In your opinion. Are we sharing enough of our resources to support you. And I and others like you.

Me. That calls for an opinion but I think it would be an educated opinion based on what you've done and what you've seen. You may not have been in this country are you tough to realize. The standard of living that we've become accustomed to. I will be doing enough to support the have nots. People like you that are trying to make something out of not hold up. I would have to say no I don't think that this country doesn't financially. And it always amazes me when I come back to see how much money people spend on some things. We all only have so much money to spend and it just does. You have to decide where you want to spend your money. Certainly I see people spending money that I think is could be better spent elsewhere but I think more important than money probably one of the big things that we in America should

should look at is educating ourselves about the way the rest of the world lives. And why do so many people in the rest of the world hate us. And that is the way many people overseas look at Americans were seen as arrogant. We think we know it all we think we have the answers to help people need to solve their problems and whereas we certainly have a very high standard of living and we have solved many of our problems and good in propria ways we don't have the answers to how everybody can solve their problems only those people in those situations that have the problems can really figure out the best way to solve their problem. And and I think we as a country need to look at ourselves as part of the world and then try to function that way. And in terms of your own support for the Endeavor secure and gauged him do you have adequate support. Do we need to do

more. I am a missionary with Mary no. We are. I'm part of the association Mariel has three branches and laypeople are part of the association then of course there are the priests and the brothers who are part of the society and the sisters who are part of the congregation. And you know the Catholic Church has always supported priests brothers and sisters very well but I think that the support for lay people has been minimal because we haven't had much history with it Protestants certainly do a much better job of first of all seeing the importance of laypeople families and children in evangelization. And then secondly supporting them and so I would certainly hope that in the future our church would look at not only the need for laypeople and evangelists ation but then also to support us financially so that we can do this kind of work in the future. Do you do much yourself in the way of. Fundraising while

you're here in this country. Yeah this this year I had come back for my one month vacation and the Association asked me Would I take two more weeks to do fundraising because we need to become financially self-sufficient within the next couple of years and. Up to this point we have been supported a lot by the society which is the priest and the brothers but that will and very shortly and so I have been doing more talks and trying to communicate more with people about what we're doing so that hopefully people will also support people in an overseas mission in the Catholic Church. Maybe certainly we can all give up our second or third TV set for two little boys. Thanks for your support. You're a one hundred bucks. Well that's all I. Have except to say thank for what you're doing. Well thanks for the call. We'll go again to another caller here with someone on the cell phone there. Their next airline number one.

Hello. Hi Dr. Susan. Hello. I just have to tell you what a great inspiration you are to me and I'm sure to almost everyone I'd like to know. I'm not Catholic but I would like to know what could be done to to support you or I would send any any monies to to support what you're what you're doing and also be. Two quick questions. What do you do to to relax over there when you do have some social time off or what. What do you do. And I also like to know what the the in the the population think about our involvement if they know about it. In Iraq when I go home listen thank you again for what you do. Thank you. Your first question about we are could support decent the merino Association has the abbreviation m and a promotion the promotion Addresses box 3 0

7 Mary Knowle New York 1 0 5 4 5 dash 0 3 0 7. And so any checks or funds that you could send to that address could either be addressed to the association itself or if you want to address it specifically to my mission account then I can give you an accounting of what I do with it. Your second question was about. Well he was interested in what what you do in your off hours my my leisure time. Yeah well first of all I have to admit to the fact that I am a workaholic. And actually I love my work I'm a very privileged woman in that I can do what I enjoy. However I I have been trying to get that more in balance in the latter part of my life. I love music. I play the piano. I don't have a piano there but I do have a guitar. I love swimming so I have most recently in the last 15

months had access to a pool and I'm trying go once a week to swim and then I lot enjoy light reading but I'd say probably the thing I enjoy most is the eating and chatting. We friends just get together and I think it's probably an art that's being lost in the age of video and email and I really enjoy just sitting around having a very good meal and talking with people about. Anything in life you know. And then the third thing to do. Well the caller specifically what people thought about the need to get the U.S. involvement in in Iraq and maybe more generally I suppose I don't know do people sit around and think about talk about international affairs U.S. policy U.S. involvement in the world to people because you're in America or grab you by the collar and say when and what's what's this country of yours doing or what do you think about that. People don't grab me by the collar but it's very clear that they do think and discuss about those issues and they have their opinions.

In general most Kenyans that I heard talking about our involvement in Iraq were very much against it. They feel that it's an illegal war and that they do not support what we're doing there. However many of the Southern Sudanese that I have talked with certainly support it because they feel that it shows that we are a very strong country that if we can control the situation in Iraq then maybe we can also control the situation in southern Sudan and stop the atrocities that are occurring there. I personally would not agree with that viewpoint. I lived for 12 years in a place that was basically controlled by terrorism. And they tried to solve the problems with war the entire time. They have signed a peace agreement but they don't have peace. And I think it's going to take a lot more than war to try to solve all of the hurt and the suffering and the anger and the problems that are are behind a lot of these situations then I think it's going to be a long time

before we're able to solve the problems in Iraq. Terrorists are. Very hard to control when they're willing to give up their lives and commit suicide. It's back earlier in the interview when we were talking about how it is that you had of going to Africa. You said something like you had had had some experience led American one I think because of that it would be in that natural place to go except that at that time it was very dangerous. There was a lot of war going on there so you thought well maybe you better go someplace where there is not war so you were in Tanzania for six years but then you ended up going to Sudan. How did that how did that happen. Well I had been in Tanzania for five years. I was very comfortable at that point in my ministry and it would have been very easy to stay on. However one of our other lame missioners who was working in Kenya hit's was supposed to work with me in Tanzania but wasn't able to get a visa to do it but was looking for another ministry and some of the suggestions were to look at

Sudan and Ethiopia. So I went to Sudan to look at the diocese of Torah to see what was there. And in fact that diocese had asked for missionaries to come help with the health care program. They thought they would get a sister they didn't realize that there were lay people available and when they met me and when I saw the situation we realized that we both could help each other so once I was able to go to the country see exactly what the situation was and what support systems I had there. I was able to say yes I can function in this situation. There's enough support here and I think I can not only function but I can thrive which in fact I did. One of the realities and I'm sure that you have to deal with anybody who who works in a non-governmental organization have to manage to get on with the government in the place where they are. And it may be you know complicated that the organization

has its agenda the things that it wants to do. The government has its agenda and in some cases those agendas may or may parallel one another but not necessarily. And I could expect that a lot of places where the governments would think what they're interested in from of an NGO is what they can get out of them and for to to make sure that that NGO causes them the least amount of trouble that they possibly can. And I wonder if you could talk a little bit about some of your experiences in that regard and are there difficulties in whatever relationship that you have with the government or is that that is the government at that point. Maybe so remote so that it's really not for you doing what you do is maybe not that much of an issue. I certainly have worked in two very different situations I'd like to put Tanzania and Kenya and one. Set. OK. There are well functioning governments. They have their agendas and I have always worked in the local church. So my

relationship with the governments in those countries would be different than an NGO because I'm working with local people at their request and trying to partner with them and then they themselves function with their local governments. So the Catholic Church in both Tenzing Kenya have representation and they have certain bodies that interact with the local government. Son Saddam was a totally different situation. I worked in rebel held areas. There was no local government. There was a rebel army that was the civil authority and they basically looked at white people working there as members of NGOs with a lot of money and it was very confusing to them to work with missionaries because we always worked under the auspices of the Catholic Church in the local bishop and in eastern equitorial bishop. But he did was a wonderful advocate for all of the

pastoral agents working in his diocese. So I was often approached by local authorities and put in difficult situations but I always had the wisdom and the support of the local church to help me figure out what was the best thing to do in that situation and oftentimes to protect me in dangerous situations and I was very grateful that I was able to work with him in his diocese. We are moving into about our last seven eight nine minutes and maybe I should introduce Again our guest Dr. Susan Negley. She is a physician is also a Catholic lay missionary and for something like 20 years now she's been working in Africa and living and working in the places that we mention intends India and Sudan and southern Sudan. And now she lives in Kenya. She grew up in Urbana. Her parents still live here she's here on a visit. She went to the University of Illinois got her medical degree at Southern Illinois University and then shortly after that became involved in the work that she's doing now and has done for the last couple of decades. And I thought it would be interesting to have her here talk a little bit

about her experiences. 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 is the Champaign-Urbana number we do also have a toll free line good anywhere. You can hear us. And that is 800 to 2 2 9 4 5. I would imagine that a lot of what you do is basic kind of health education and that that might be complicated that by the fact that people the people that you come to try to work with already have some ideas about why it is you get sick and what it is you do to get well which may or may not. Square up with you. Well I really haven't really happens and that some of what you have to do is is to try to get across to people a little bit of a basic theory of disease and why it is that people get sick and what you can do to try to stay healthy and then when when you're sick when you're really sick. What you can do to try and get well. Again there's a big difference between practicing in Tanzania and Kenya and in southern Sudan both Tenzing Kenya have much better

educated populations and so we're not starting at ground zero. When I went to the most recent area that I worked in to put the land in southern Sudan it was for me quite an eye opener to see what it's like to work with a population who has no concept of modern medicine. So I'm glad that I was able to adjust to the cultural differences in Tanzania and Kenya first because yes most people have ideas different from modern medicine. There are many beliefs regarding curses witchcraft. Problems in relationships between people that cause illness. And I think actually a lot of that is very true. We have a lot more problems related to stress and difficulties in relationship to cause organic illnesses. However in southern Sudan there was no concept of

viruses bacteria. There was not even a word for cancer although I saw many very far advanced cancers there. So in that situation I was working in a situation where they had no context to put what I was doing into their belief system. And it took a lot of time to just establish a relationship with the people and for them to realize that some of the things that we did did benefit them and when they saw that then they would start coming back with the disease like AIDS where we were trying to teach them about a virus that can live in their bodies for five to 10 years before it ever surfaces and then it can kill them. They basically could not understand that and would not believe it. They feel like this is a white woman who is just trying to scare them. And until they start seeing the disease themself and can understand from physical sight what's happening a lot of

our education will not be very useful. Well start with someone else or another band a listener on the line one. Well I've had to tune in and out so I might have missed this if he's addressed it already. I have many times when we hear the word missionary we think about people going to try to convert the population from their local belief system to either Christianity or Islam or some other major religion. And I was wondering if you could discuss whatever role that might have in your work if any I have no idea and I will listen off line. I am a Catholic missionary and I felt very uncomfortable in the beginning using that term because I don't proselytize or talk directly about my faith and I think most of us Catholics we don't feel very comfortable talking about our faith.

Protestants are much much more comfortable with that. So I'm trying to live my life and in a way that. Comes from what I believe and I people aren't stupid they can can see that if you're doing something that is benefiting people but you don't seem to be doing it for money or other amenities they they do start asking why are you doing it. But the other thing is that it's important for me to work within the local church and I don't have all the answers I have some answers and they have some answers and so what we do is we were together were hung the same committees trying to build this church or trying to address this problem of AIDS in our community. And so what we do is we put our heads together and in difficult situations we support one another. And it's not just me imparting to them. I'm a part of the community and I am as much being a vandalised

by their faith and their ability to not only survive but thrive in very difficult situations. So that's the way I. Live my missionary life and you I guess people need to understand as you say that you're part of this organization Catholic organization and part of the exaction of the places where you live are priests and nuns who who may be slightly more primary job is to do that and that you at least as I understand you think that primarily the job that you're there to do is to be a doctor and to do. Yes that certainly is my job but we do have laypeople that also would do Kathak Isa's pastoral work in the communities. And you know as a member of any organization we're all trying to to move forward and to figure out in this organization what is the best way to live our lives so none of us agree 100 percent with everything the organization doesn't. And none of us have all of the answers. I don't think I don't think that we should be so arrogant as to believe that we need to

continually realize that each of us individuals has to feel have to has to search and to grow and to become better for the people that you've worked with how do they react to your being a woman. And in the role that you're in always I feel like being white in in African societies has given me a status above other women. They automatically assume that I know more and give me more respect. With the exception of some places in southern Sudan men there. Did not respect me as a white woman the way other Africans would have. I. I say that it probably gives me an in to working with women and children which is really what my love is. I am able to work with victims of sexual assault which are by far and away more often women than men.

And being a woman I am able I think to provide the service better than a man would be able to do. Do you have men coming to you with their medical complaints or do men not feel comfortable going to a woman doctor and talking about what's up with them. I have had plenty of men coming in would be hard to know how many men don't come because I'm a woman. I would say that in general most of the places that I have worked in there's been such a need that if a person is really sick and nobody has been able to help them even if it's a difficult medical problem that involve the sexual area they find a way to somehow or another present it to me so that we can help them. Well we've come to the end of the time and we're going to have to stop just because we're who we have used our time. And I want to say to our guest Dr. Seuss niggling to thank you very much for being here we appreciate it. Thank you it's my pleasure. She is a physician and a Catholic lay worker lay missioner and

is associated with Mary Nolan again if people are interested in finding out about Marino and they have internet access. There's a website doesn't now everybody have one. And I think if people go to Marion all m a r y k n o l l marrying old Orji they can find out all about it. Anything they need to know the Internet is wonderful isn't it. Well again thanks very much. Thank you.