PBS NewsHour; October 20, 2016 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT

Captioning sponsored by NEWSHOUR PRODUCTIONS, LLC

>> Woodruff: GOOD EVENING, I'M JUDY WOODRUFF.

>> Sreenivasan: AND I'M HARI SREENIVASAN.

>> Woodruff: ON THE NEWSHOUR TONIGHT, DONALD TRUMP'S ATTACK ON THE INTEGRITY OF U.S. ELECTIONS HAS BOTH DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS COMING TO THE DEFENSE OF A PILLAR OF DEMOCRACY.

>> Sreenivasan: THEN, A GROUND REPORT FROM SWING STATE NORTH CAROLINA: HOW AMERICANS STRUGGLING WITH POVERTY IN RURAL AREAS VIEW THIS ELECTION.

>> I MEAN IF THEY CAME DOWN HERE AND SAW HOW PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY LIVING IN RURAL AMERICA AND THEN MAYBE THEY WILL CHANGE IT OR MAYBE THEY WILL DO SOMETHING

>> Woodruff: AND, THE SURPRISING SPLIT OVER A PROOSED CARBON TAX IN SEATTLE, WASHINGTON, PUTTING RESIDENTS IN A DEAD HEAT OVER HOW TO KEEP THE STATE GREEN.

>> TWO OF THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES WE FACE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE CLIMATE CHANGE AND ECONOMIC INEQUALITY. IF WE PIT ONE OF THOSE CHALLENGES AGAINST THE OTHER, NEITHER WILL BE SUCCESSFUL.

>> Sreenivasan: ALL THAT AND MORE ON TONIGHT'S PBS NEWSHOUR.

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>> Sreenivasan: ON THIS DAY AFTER THE FINAL DEBATE, DONALD TRUMP IS AT THE CENTER OF A POLITICAL STORM, AGAIN. IT BLEW UP LAST NIGHT, WITH HIS REFUSAL TO SAY HE'D ACKNOWLEDGE NEXT MONTH'S OUTCOME.

>> I WILL TOTALLY ACCEPT THE RESULTS OF THIS GREAT AND HISTORIC PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, IF I WIN. ( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )

>> Sreenivasan: DONALD TRUMP, IN DELAWARE, OHIO TODAY, STIRRING THE POT AGAIN ON WHAT HAPPENS IF HE LOSES.

>> OF COURSE I WOULD ACCEPT A CLEAR ELECTION RESULT, BUT I WOULD ALSO RESERVE MY RIGHT TO CONTEST OR FILE A LEGAL CHALLENGE IN THE CASE OF A QUESTIONABLE RESULT.

>> Sreenivasan: ALL OF THAT, AFTER THE NOMINEE TOUCHED OFF A FUROR, DURING HIS FINAL DEBATE WITH HILLARY CLINTON:

>> ARE YOU SAYING YOU'RE NOT PREPARED NOW TO COMMIT TO THAT PRINCIPLE?

>> WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT I WILL TELL YOU AT THE TIME. I'LL KEEP YOU IN SUSPENSE. OKAY?

>> WELL, CHRIS, LET ME RESPOND TO THAT, BECAUSE THAT'S HORRIFYING.

>> Sreenivasan: CLINTON WENT FURTHER, POST-DEBATE, WHILE FLYING FROM LAS VEGAS EARLY THIS MORNING.

>> SO WHAT HE SAID TONIGHT IS PART OF HIS EFFORT TO BLAME SOMEBODY ELSE FOR HIS CAMPAIGN AND WHERE HE STANDS IN THIS ELECTION.

>> Sreenivasan: TRUMP ALSO GOT PUSHBACK FROM FELLOW REPUBLICANS, INCLUDING JOHN THUNE, THE NUMBER-THREE REPUBLICAN IN THE SENATE. HE SAID ALL SUCH TALK "UNDERMINES AN ELECTORAL SYSTEM THAT IS A MODEL FOR NATIONS AROUND THE WORLD." ANOTHER REPUBLICAN SENATOR, BOB CORKER, WHO HAS CAMPAIGNED WITH TRUMP, TWEETED: IT IS "IMPERATIVE THAT DONALD TRUMP CLEARLY STATE THAT HE WILL ACCEPT THE RESULTS." SENATE MAJORITY LEADER MITCH McCONNELL DECLINED COMMENT TODAY. AND HOUSE SPEAKER PAUL RYAN'S OFFICE SAID HE IS "FULLY CONFIDENT THE STATES WILL CARRY OUT THIS ELECTION WITH INTEGRITY." AND LATE TODAY, PRESIDENT OBAMA WEIGHED IN, STUMPING FOR CLINTON IN MIAMI:

>> THAT IS NOT A MATTER. I WANT EVERYBODY TO PAY ATTENTION HERE. THAT IS DANGEROUS. BECAUSE WHEN YOU TRY TO SOW THE DOUBT IN PEOPLE'S MINDS ABOUT THE LEGITIMACY OF OUR ELECTION, THAT AMERICA UNDERMINES OUR DEMOCRACY.

>> Sreenivasan: MEANWHILE, IN NEW YORK: ANOTHER WOMAN CAME FORWARD TO ACCUSE DONALD TRUMP OF GROPING HER. KARENA VIRGINIA SAYS IT HAPPENED IN NEW YORK IN 1998. AND TRUMP TODAY ACCUSED CLINTON OF POLITICAL CHEATING. HE CITED A HACKED E-MAIL THAT SHOWED SHE WAS TIPPED ABOUT A DEATH PENALTY QUESTION, DURING A PRIMARY SEASON TOWN HALL.

>> THAT IS CHEATING AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL.

>> Sreenivasan: AS FOR LAST NIGHT'S FINAL FACE-OFF, EARLY RATINGS SHOW ABOUT 68 MILLION AMERICANS WATCHED-- MORE THAN THE SECOND DEBATE, BUT FAR FEWER THAN THE FIRST. TONIGHT, BOTH CANDIDATES SHARE A STAGE AGAIN, THIS TIME, AT THE GALA AL SMITH DINNER, IN NEW YORK.

>> Woodruff: IN THE DAY'S OTHER NEWS, A RUSSIA-SYRIAN "HUMANITARIAN PAUSE" TOOK EFFECT IN SYRIA IN THE BESIEGED CITY OF ALEPPO. IT COULD RUN AS LONG AS FOUR DAYS. USING LOUDSPEAKERS, THE SYRIAN MILITARY URGED RESIDENTS TO LEAVE AND GUNMEN TO LAY DOWN THEIR WEAPONS. THE SYRIAN ARMY ALSO DROPPED LEAFLETS, BUT THE U.N.'S SPECIAL ENVOY SAID HE DOUBTS THE EFFORT WILL WORK.

>> BUT CERTAINLY, MY FEELING IS, THAT FROM WHAT I'M HEARING, THAT THE PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO LEAVE THEIR PLACES. THEY DO NOT WANT TO BECOME REFUGEES. THEY WANT TO STAY IN THEIR PLACE, BUT THEY DO REQUEST "STOP THE BOMBINGS," WHICH NEEDS TO BE, BY THE WAY, FROM BOTH SIDES.

>> Woodruff: MEANWHILE, A SEPARATE FIGHT NORTH OF ALEPPO: TURKEY ATTACKED SYRIAN KURDS WHO'VE BEEN FIGHTING ISLAMIC STATE FORCES. MILITARY FOOTAGE SHOWED AIR STRIKES ON KURDISH FIGHTERS LINKED TO A GROUP THE U.S. SUPPORTS. TURKEY SAYS THEY'RE ALSO TIED TO MILITANTS FIGHTING THE TURKISH GOVERNMENT.

>> Sreenivasan: IN IRAQ, THE BATTLE FOR MOSUL CLAIMED ITS FIRST AMERICAN CASUALTY: A SOLDIER KILLED BY A ROADSIDE BOMB. U.S. FORCES ARE ADVISING IRAQIS IN THEIR CAMPAIGN TO RETAKE THE CITY FROM THE ISLAMIC STATE. FIRST, THEY HAVE TO CAPTURE OUTLYING TOWNS, AND JOHN IRVINE OF INDEPENDENT TELEVISION NEWS REPORTS ON THE HARROWING TRIP OF ONE SUCH UNIT.

>> Reporter: A NEW DAY BROUGHT A FRESH ASSAULT TAKING THE FIGHT I ASKED FOR THE FIRST TIME WHERE IRAQ SPECIAL FORCES CAME TO QUICKLY MAKE THEIR MIND. THE ATTACK WAS A PINCER MOVEMENT AND WE WERE IN A VEHICLE WITH A TEAM TRYING TO FIND SAFE PASSAGE THROUGH THE LANDMINES. SOON CAME UNDER SNIPER FIRE. A GUNSHIP WAS CALLED IN. THE SNIPING WAS ENDED. THE EXPLOSIVES EXPERTS CALLED FOR A TANK TO JOIN THEM BEFORE LEAVING THE ROAD AND ANSWER THE SAFER GROUND THAT IS THE COUNTRY SIDE. WE WERE VENTURING INTO THE SO-CALLED CALIPHATE AND THE IRAQ FORCES PUT DOWN A LOT AT SUPPRESSING FIRE. BUT THE TELLTALE INDICATED THAT IS WAS STILL PUTTING UP A NIGHT.

>> WE'RE COMING UP ON THE SNIPERS. THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH BEING IN THE LEAD VEHICLE IN AN OFFENSIVE WHICH IS NOW PRETTY CLEAR GOING.

>> Reporter: MAJOR OF THE SPECIAL FORCES FIRED AND A CAR OVERTURNED SPEEDING DOWN A ROAD. WHEN NOTHING HAPPENED, WE WONDERED IF THE DRIVER HAD BEEN AN INNOCENT, JUST TRYING TO FLEE THE BATTLEFIELD. NO, HE WAS A SUICIDE BOMBER WHO MISSED US. WE WERE JUST GLAD THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY, ALL OF US AND OUR BATTERED VEHICLE HAD COME THROUGH. ONLY IT WASN'T THE END OF THE DAY. A FORCED CAR BOMB ATTACK ON THE CONVOY. POSTAL IS STILL A FEW DAYS AWAY FOR IRAQI FORCES AND THE CLOSER THEY GET, THE HARDER IT WILL BECOME.

>> Sreenivasan: THERE ARE 5,000 U.S. TROOPS IN IRAQ. ABOUT 100 ARE EMBEDDED WITH IRAQI AND KURDISH FORCES AROUND MOSUL. WE'LL TALK LATER TO RETIRED GENERAL DAVID PETRAEUS. HE COMMANDED U.S. TROOPS IN MOSUL IN 2003.

>> Woodruff: THE U.S. MILITARY CONFIRMS THAT NORTH KOREA TEST- FIRED ANOTHER BALLISTIC MISSILE OVERNIGHT, BUT IT CRASHED SHORTLY AFTER LAUNCH. THAT'S THE SECOND FAILED TEST SINCE SATURDAY. IT CAME HOURS AFTER THE U.S. AND SOUTH KOREA AGREED TO STRENGTHEN MILITARY AND DIPLOMATIC EFFORTS AGAINST THE NORTH.

>> Sreenivasan: THE PRESIDENT OF THE PHILIPPINES, RODRIGO DUTERTE, ANNOUNCED TODAY WHAT HE CALLS A SEPARATION FROM THE U.S. DUTERTE SPOKE IN BEIJING, AFTER MEETING WITH CHINESE PRESIDENT XI JINPING, AND SIGNING A MAJOR COMMERCIAL DEAL. AFTERWARD, HE SAID THAT IN MILITARY AND ECONOMIC TERMS, AMERICA HAS "LOST."

>> WILL ALSO GO TO RUSSIA TO TALK TO PUTIN AND TELL HIM THAT THERE ARE THREE OF US AGAINST THE WORLD: CHINA, PHILIPPINES AND RUSSIA.

>> Sreenivasan: DUTERTE ALSO SAID HE'LL WORK WITH XI TO SETTLE THEIR MARITIME DISPUTE IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA. IN WASHINGTON, THE STATE DEPARTMENT CALLED THE COMMENTS "BAFFLING" AND SAID IT WILL SEEK AN EXPLANATION.

>> Woodruff: A SUPER TYPHOON BLASTED THE NORTHERN PHILIPPINES OVERNIGHT, WITH WINDS OF 140 MILES AN HOUR. IT WAS THE MOST POWERFUL STORM TO HIT THE COUNTRY IN THREE YEARS, BUT THE DEATH TOLL OF SEVEN WAS FAR LOWER THAN FEARED. THE STORM DID TRIGGER FLOODING, LANDSLIDES AND POWER OUTAGES. NEARLY 100,000 PEOPLE HAD BEEN EVACUATED AHEAD OF TIME.

>> Sreenivasan: THE EUROPEAN SPACE AGENCY NOW SAYS ITS LATEST MARS LANDER MAY HAVE CRASHED. GROUND CONTROLLERS LOST CONTACT WITH THE EXPERIMENTAL PROBE YESTERDAY, AS IT DROPPED TOWARD THE SURFACE. ANIMATION SHOWED HOW THE LANDER WAS SUPPOSED TO USE A PARACHUTE AND THRUSTERS TO MAKE A SOFT LANDING. EUROPE'S LAST ATTEMPT AT A MARS LANDING ALSO FAILED, BACK IN 2003.

>> Woodruff: ON WALL STREET, STOCKS CLOSED LOWER, GIVING UP YESTERDAY'S MODEST GAINS. THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE LOST 40 POINTS TO CLOSE AT 18,162. THE NASDAQ FELL FOUR POINTS, AND THE S&P 500 SLIPPED NEARLY THREE POINTS.

>> Sreenivasan: AND, FOR WINE LOVERS, IT'S A CASE OF SOUR GRAPES. A GLOBAL SURVEY OUT TODAY FINDS THIS YEAR'S PRODUCTION IS THE LOWEST SINCE 2012. FLOODS, DROUGHT AND OTHER BAD WEATHER TOOK A TOLL ACROSS EUROPE AND SOUTH AMERICA. WINE OUTPUT IN THE U.S. ACTUALLY WENT UP, SLIGHTLY. STILL TO COME ON THE NEWSHOUR: AN IN-DEPTH LOOK AT THE KEY MOMENTS FROM LAST NIGHT'S DEBATE. RURAL VOTERS FEELING ABANDONED BY TODAY'S POLITICIANS. GENERAL DAVID PETRAEUS' TAKE ON THE FIGHT IN MOSUL. WASHINGTON STATE DIVIDED OVER A TAX ON CARBON POLLUTION, AND MUCH MORE.

>> Woodruff: AS WE HEARD EARLIER, DONALD TRUMP CONTINUED TO SUGGEST TODAY HE MIGHT NOT ACCEPT THE RESULTS OF THE NOVEMBER ELECTION. BUT, SHOULD HE LOSE, COULD TRUMP LEGALLY CHALLENGE THE RESULTS? AND HOW WOULD THAT PROCESS WORK? TO EXAMINE SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS, WE ARE JOINED BY CHRIS ASHBY, A REPUBLICAN ELECTION LAWYER, AND BEVERLY GAGE, PROFESSOR OF AMERICAN HISTORY AT YALE. AND WE WELCOME BOTH OF YOU TO THE PROGRAM. BEVERLY GAGE, TO YOU FIRST, HAVE WE EVER SEEN ANYTHING QUITE LIKE THIS BEFORE.

>> WE HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS BEFORE, JUDY. THERE HAS BEEN CONTESTED ELECTIONS IN THE MOST AND THOSE ARE OFTEN CLOSE ELECTIONS WHERE ONCE THE RESULTS ARE IN, THEY SEEM UNCERTAIN SO YOU HAVE A VARIETY OF APPEALS. BUT WE HAVE NEVER HAD A MAJOR PARTY CANDIDATE SAY THIS FAR IN ADVANCE THAT THE ONLY LEGITIMATE OUTCOME OF ONLY ELECTION IS HIS OWN VICTORY. THAT IS UNPRECEDENTED.

>> Woodruff: BUT YOU SAY WE HAVE HAD CONTESTED ELECTIONS AFTER THE FACT. AND EVERYONE AT A CERTAIN AGE REMEMBERS 2000, BUSH V. GORE BUT THERE HAVE BEEN OTHERS IN AMERICA HISTORY.

>> RIGHT, THERE HAVE BEEN CONTESTED ELECTION AND FIERCELY ELECTIONS WITH ALMOST BAD FEELINGS ALMOST SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE REPUBLIC. WHAT THOSE HAVE ALWAYS PRODUCED IS WITH ONE PRETTY BIG EXCEPTION IS THE PEACEFUL TRANSITION OF POWER. THAT EXCEPTION OF COURSE IS 1860 WHERE MUCH OF THE WHITE SOUTH SAID THEY WOULD NOT ACCENT ABRAHAM LINCOLN AS PRESIDENT AND WE GOT THE CIVIL WAR AS A RESULT. ABOUT THAT EXCEPTION, EVERYONE DESPITE CHALLENGES HAS ULTIMATELY COME AROUND. OTHER THAN 2000, PROBABLY THE FAMOUS ONE IN RECENT MEMORY WAS 1960, WHICH WAS THIS SQUEAKER OF AN ELECTION BETWEEN KENNEDY AND NIXON WHICH NIXON TO SOME DEGREE CHALLENGED THE ELECTION BUT HE STEPPED ASIDE.

>> Woodruff: LET ME PLAY DEVIL'S ADVOCATE. WHAT DONALD TRUMP IS SAYING AND HE SAID THIS TODAY, I WANT TO RESERVE THE RIGHT TO FILE A CHALLENGE IN CASE OF A QUESTIONABLE RESULT. IS THAT NOT A REASONABLETHING FOR HIM TO DO.

>> NO, IT'S NOT BECAUSE IT'S A STATEMENT OF THE OBVIOUS. HE DOESN'T WAIVE HIS RIGHT, HE DOESN'T NEED TO CLAIM THAT RIGHT NOW. WHAT HE NEEDS TO DO IS WHAT INDEED EVERY PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE BEFORE HIM SAID I'LL ACCEPT THE OUT COME. AND AFTER THE ELECTION IF THERE IS SOME EVIDENCE THAT AN ELECTION, THE ELECTORS IN A PARTICULAR STATE WAS TAINTED BY FRAUD HE COULD DO THAT BUT BY SAYING IT HE'S UNDERMINING, IT'S VERY DANGEROUS AND DESTRUCTIVE TO THE DOWN TREE.

>> Woodruff: WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO TRIGGER A CHALLENGE. HOW OFF WOULD THE RESULTS HAVE TO BE IN ORDER TO, FOR THERE TO BE WARRANTED A LEGITIMATE CHALLENGE TO THE RESULTS?

>> WELL, THE STANDARD HERE IN A CHALLENGE WOULD BE SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF VOTES THAT COULD BE PROVEN, RIGHT. YOU CAN'T JUST SAY THERE WAS GENERALLY FRAUD. YOU HAVE TO KNOW HOW MANY VOTES EITHER FROM FRAUD OR MISTAKE AND IT HAS TO BE ENOUGH VOTES TO COVER THE MARGIN BETWEEN THE CANDIDATES. IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE TO GO OUT AND FIND EVIDENCE, YOU HAVE TO FIND VOTERS AND YOU HAVE TO QUANTIFY THIS WITHIN A PERIOD OF A MONTH. THE ELECTION WOULD HAVE TO BE PRETTY CLOSE IN ORDER FOR THEM QUANTIFYING A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO CANDIDATES.

>> Woodruff: WHEN YOU SAY PRETTY CLOSE, HOW CLOSE DO YOU MEAN.

>> MAYBE A FEW HUNDRED, MAYBE IN THE LOW THOUSANDS OF FOLKS. EVEN THAT WOULD BE A HIGH BAR.

>> Woodruff: WE'RE TALKING STATE BY STATE.

>> YES, IT'S NOT THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IT'S THE E LETTERS OF CREDIT AND THAT HAPPENS IN THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA. YOU BRING A CONTEST TO THE ELECTION OF THE ELECTORS AND YOU HAVE TO BRING ENOUGH STATE CONTESTS TO COVER THE DINCH IN THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE. IF THIS ELECTION HEADS THE WAY IT APPEARS IT'S HEADING, THAT COULD BE HUNDREDS OF ELECTORAL VOTES WE NEED TO SWING IN A CONTEST DECIDE BY MULTIPLE STATES AT ONCE. VERY VERY HIGH BAR.

>> Woodruff: BEVERLY GAGE BACK TO WHAT WE'VE SEEN HISTORICALLY IN AMERICAN ELECTIONS, WHAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF A TIME WHEN, I MEAN YOU CAN TALK ABOUT 1960, 2000. I MEAN, DIG A LITTLE BIT DEEPER INTO WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO TRIGGER SOMETHING AND THEN TO PURSUE IT.

>> ONE THING TO NOTE ABOUT THE 20TH CENTURY, FOR THE MOST PART WE HAVEN'T HAD PARTICULARLY CLOSE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS. SO CHRIS IS RIGHT, BUT IT WOULD NEED TO BE INCREDIBLY CLOSE FOR ANYTHING LIKE THIS TO HAPPEN. AND THAT'S ACTUALLY FAIRLY UNUSUAL BUT WE'VE GOTTEN A LITTLE BIT MORE USE TO IT IN RECENT YEARS. SO 1960 WAS REALLY A RAZOR THIN COUNT. AND AT THAT TIME, NIXON DID NOT CONCEDE OVER NIGHT BUT YOU DID CONCEDE IN THE MORNING. REPUBLICAN PARTY WENT AHEAD AND CHALLENGED STATES LIKE ILLINOIS TEXAS. SOMETIMES THAT WAS THROUGH THE COURTS, SOMETIMES THAT WAS THROUGH RECOUNTS BUT THERE WAS NEVER ANY TRUTH THAT THERE HAD BEEN ANY FRAUD ANYTHINGANT ENOUGH TO CHANGE THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION. NIXON HIMSELF ACTUALLY ALWAYS TOOK IT AS A POINT OF POLITICAL PRIDE THAT THOUGH HE HARBORED A HAPPY HEART IN THAT MOMENT, HE IN FACT CONCEDE TO DO KENNEDY FOR THE GOOD OF THE COUNTRY.

>> Woodruff: CHRIS ASHBY, LET'S TALK FOR A MOMENT 2004, OHIO, JOHN KERRY. THE DEMOCRATS CHALLENGE SOME OF HOW THAT STATE, THE STATE OF OHIO CAME OUT. IT WENT FOR BUSH IN 2004 BUT THERE WERE QUESTIONS RAISED.

>> SURE. THEY RAISED THOSE QUESTIONS IN CONGRESS AND CONGRESS DISPOSED OF THOSE QUESTIONS PRETTY QUICKLY. IN THE ABSENCE OF SOME KIND OF COMPELLING EVIDENCE OF BROAD OR OF MISTAKES IN THE CONDUCT OF THE ELECTION THAT AFFECTS THE OUTCOME, I JUST DON'T SEE PEOPLE HAVING MUCH PATIENCE OR TIME FOR THIS TYPE OF CHALLENGE.

>> Woodruff: ANOTHER QUESTION CHRIS ASHBY AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS ON THE PROGRAM EARLIER THIS. TRUMP HAS SAID TO HIS SUPPORTERS AND IN SEVERAL PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, YOU NEED TO GO AND WATCH WHAT'S HAPPENING AT POLLING PLACES. WHAT WOULD THAT MEAN IF THAT HAPPENED.

>> THAT'S A VERY DANGEROUS SITUATION BECAUSE IN MOST STATES THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE ALLOWED IN. MOST STATES REQUIRE POLL WATCHERS TO HAVE CROTCH DECEMBER AND SOME TYPE OF TRAINING TO UNDERSTAND THEY'RE SERVE. ANY MEMBER WHO IS WALKING AND OBSERVE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET ANYWHERE NEAR A VOTER OR POLL BOOTH OR AN ELECTION OFFICIAL. IF THEY TRY TO INTERFERE WITH THE CONDUCT OF THE ELECTION THEY'RE GOING TO BE REMOVED. IF THEY CAN'T GET IN OR TAKEN OUT, THAT'S JUST GOING TO FEED RIGHT INTO THE SUSPICION THAT LED THEM THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. YOU DO THIS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY AND POST IT ON THE NEWS OR THE INTERNET IT'S A VERY SLAMMABLE POSITION ON ELECTION DAY.

>> Woodruff: BEVERLY. TELL US WHAT WE CAN COUNT ON TO RESPECT THE RESULTS OF OUR ELECTIONS.

>> A VERY IMPORTANT THING IS SINCE OUR FOUNDING HAS BEEN THE PEACEFUL TRANSITION OF POWER WHICH IS SOMETHING EVERY PRESIDENT HAS REALLY PRIDED HIMSELF ON. IF YOU THINK BACK TO THE FOUNDERS, THOSE WERE PEOPLE WITH LIVING MEMORY OF REVOLUTION. THEY HAVE SEEN IT IN EUROPE, THEY HAD EXPERIENCED IT THEMSELVES AND THEY UNDERSTOOD IT WAS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL TO AFFIRM THE ELECTORAL SYSTEM AND TO SEE THAT POWER COULD PASS PEACEFULLY AND IT WAS ONE OF THE GREAT POINTS OF PRIDE FOR THE COUNTRY AND HAS BEEN ALMOST ALWAYS EVER SINCE.

>> Woodruff: THIS IS ANOTHER MOMENT FOR US TO THINK ABOUT THAT AND REMEMBER WHAT IT DOES MEAN FOR OUR COUNTRY AND FOR OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT. BEVERLY GAGE, CHRIS ASHBY, WE THANK YOU BOTH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Sreenivasan: UNLIKE THE FIRST TWO DEBATES, LAST NIGHT WE HEARD A LOT MORE ABOUT POLICY FROM BOTH CANDIDATES. HERE TO HELP BREAK THEM DOWN IS OUR OWN LISA DESJARDINS. THE FIRST EXCHANGES THAT WAS SUBSTANTIVE WAS ABOUT SUPREME COURT NOMINEE DECISIONS THAT ONE OF THESE TWO PRESIDENTS WHOEVER WINS WOULD HAVE AND WHAT KIND OF IMPACT THAT PERSON WOULD HAVE IN THE COURTS AND IN CASES LIKE ROE V WAY.

>> YOU CAN TAKE THE BABY AND RIP THE BABY OUT OF THE WOMB ON THE 9TH MONTH ON THE FINAL DAY AND THAT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE.

>> Sreenivasan: HOW MANY LATE TERM ABORTIONS ARE THERE BECAUSE IT USUALLY GETS DISTILLED DOWN TO WORSE CASE SCENARIO.

>> THIS IS THE BEST WAY WE HAVE FOR THESE KIND OF STATISTICS. AFTER 21 WEEKS HERE'S WHAT THEY SAY. IN THE U.S. ROUGHLY 1.3% OF ALL ABORTIONS HAPPEN AFTER 21 WEEKS. THAT'S CONSIDERED LATE TERM BUT IT'S STILL THE MIDDLE OF THE SECOND TRIMESTER. THAT RELATES INTO 6100 ABORTIONS THAT IN 2012. THAT OF ALMOST 700,000 SO THAT'S A SMALL PERCENTAGE.

>> Sreenivasan: WHAT IS HILLARY CLINTON'S POSITION.

>> SHE SAYS SHE WOULD FAVOR RESTRICTIONS ON THE THIRD TRY PERCENT ON ABORTION BUT ONLY IF THE HEALTH OR LIFE OF THE MOTHER WAS CONSIDERED. THAT'S HER POLICY AND HAS BEEN CONSISTENT.

>> Sreenivasan: WHAT ABOUT THAT LARGER CONTEXT THAT DONALD TRUMP AND HILLARY CLINTON ASKED ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS IF JUSTICES GET APPOINTED THAT THEY RETURN ROE WADE.

>> IT IS THOUGHT BY SCHOLARS IT WOULD RETURN TO THE STATE AND STATE LAW WOULD TAKE OVER ABORTION. WE KNOW THERE ARE STATES THAT HAVE LAWS IN THE BOOKS SAYING IF ROE VERSUS WADE IS OVERTURNED, THEY WOULD MAKE ABORTION UNLAWFUL. OTHER STATES WOULD INCREASE RESTRICTIONS. THERE'S A REAL QUESTION OVER WHETHER THE NEXT PRESIDENT WILL HAVE ENOUGH SEATS ON THE COURT TO IN FACT OVERTURN ROE VERSUS WADE.

>> Sreenivasan: THERE'S ALSO ANOTHER EXCHANGE ABOUT NUCLEAR ARMS AND KIND OF A RACE WITH RUSSIA. LET'S TAKE A LISTEN.

>> WE HAVE A COUNTRY WITH TREMENDOUS NUMBERS OF NUCLEAR WARHEADS, 1800 BY THE WAY. WHERE THEY SPEND IT AND WE DIDN'T. 1800 NUCLEAR WARHEADS AND SHE'S PLAYING CHICKEN. WE ARE SO OUTPLAYED ON MISSILES, ON CEASE FIRES. THEY ARE OUTPLAYED.

>> Sreenivasan: SO I THINK BOTH SIDES WOULD AGREE THERE'S NOT TOGETHER TO BE A WINNER IN A NUCLEAR WAR AROUND THE WORLD BUT WHY DOES THIS NUMBERS GAMES MATTER.

>> HE'S TALKING ABOUT STRATEGIC DEPLOYED NUCLEAR WEAPONS BY RUSSIA. LET'S LOOK AT WHERE WE ARE JUST FOR SOME BACKGROUND. IN 2016 RUSSIA HAS ABOUT 1735 DEPLOYED NUCLEAR WEAPONS THOSE ARE BASICALLY READY TO LAUNCH WEAPONS. THE U.S. 1481 THAT'S FROM THE ARMS CONTROL ASSOCIATION. HERE'S THE THING, HARI, THOSE NUMBERS ARE MISLEADING BECAUSE BOTH COUNTRIES ARE UNDER A TREATY. BY 2018, BOTH COUNTRIES HAVE TO HAVE LESS THAN 1550. BOTH RUSSIA AND THE UNITED STATES RIGHT NOW ARE DECREASING THEIR NUCLEAR ARSENAL. THESE ARE FOR STRATEGIC AND POLITICAL REASONS BOTH.

>> Sreenivasan: AREN'T ALL NUKES THE SAME. WHAT'S THE CAUSE AND DECREASE BY THE TREATY.

>> NOT ALL ARE THE SAME BUT WE TALKED TO ONE EXPERTS WHO SAYS OVERALL YOU STAY WAY FROM DETAILS BUT WHAT MATTERS THE DIFFERENCE IN NUMBERS BETWEEN THE U.S. AND RUSSIA REALLY DOESN'T MATTER IN TERMS OF THE AMOUNT OF NUMBER OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS. THE SIZE OF THESE ARSENALS ARE SO HUGE, THEY CAN DO TREMENDOUS DAMAGE. DIFFERENCE OF A HUGH HUNDRED NUKES IS NOT GREAT.

>> Sreenivasan: THERE'S ALSO A CLIP HERE I WANT TO PLAY. CHRIS WALLACE BROUGHT UP A REVELATION FROM WIKIWEEKS WHICH TRIED TO HIGHLIGHT THE DISCREPANCY BETWEEN HILLARY CLINTON POSITION ON IMMIGRATION AND EXCERPT FROM HER SPEECH SHE GAVE.

>> IS THAT YOUR DREAMS, OPEN WATERS.

>> IF YOU WENT ON TO RED THE REST OF THE SENTENCE, I WAS TALKING ABOUT ENERGY. WE TRADE MORE ENERGY WITH OUR NEIGHBORS THAN WE TRADE WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD COMBINED.

>> AND YOU KNOW, THIS IS A SENTENCE THAT WAS JUST, A COUPLE SENTENCES, WE DON'T HAVE THE FULL SPEECH. THAT'S THE PROBLEM HERE. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HILLARY CLINTON WAS SAYING BEFORE SHE TALKED ABOUT OPEN BORDERS. WAS SHE TALKING ABOUT IMMIGRATION OR WAS SHE TALKING ABOUT ENERGY AS SHE CLAIMED. WE CAN LOOK AT A FEW OTHER EXCERPTS WE HAVE HERE FROM THAT SPEECH. SHE DID TALK ABOUT ENERGY A LOT IN THAT TRAIT. SHE TALKED ABOUT TRADE AND ABOUT IMMIGRATION THAT'S THE PROBLEM BECAUSE HILLARY CLINTON HAS NOT RELEASED THE FULL TRANSCRIPT OF THAT SPEECH. WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE WHAT SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT OPEN BORDERS.

>> Sreenivasan: SINCE THE ELECTION IS SO CLOSE WE'VE GOT YOU WORKING ON A LOT OF DIFFERENT THIFNLGTZ WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN NORTH CAROLINA.

>> WE FOUND A VERY LARGE OF PEOPLE AND ISSUE AND THE TRUTH IS THE COMPLAINS HAVE NEARLY IGNORED.

>> Reporter: IT IS A PLACE RICH IN LANDSCAPES... ♪ ♪ AND IN SPIRIT... FIERCELY PROUD OF ITS APPALACHIAN HERITAGE... BUT AMID THAT BEAUTY AND STRENGTH, THE TOWNS OF WESTERN NORTH CAROLINA ARE STRUGGLING, AND MANY FEEL NO ONE IS LISTENING.

>> I DON'T HAVE A SAVINGS, IT IS PRETTY MUCH PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK.

>> I DON'T THINK POLITICIANS REALIZE HOW MANY OF US... THIS IS THE FACE OF POVERTY. THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY TRY TO GET BY AND HONESTLY MAKE A LIVING AND THEY AUTOMATICALLY ASSUME THE WORST.

>> Reporter: IT'S A CONVERSATION HAPPENING FAR OUTSIDE OF WASHINGTON. AS THE ECONOMY SLOWLY IMPROVES IN MANY PLACES, HERE IN WILKES COUNTY, AT THE EDGE OF THE BLUE RIDGE MOUNTAINS, BY MANY ACCOUNTS TIMES ARE GETTING TOUGHER. WILKES SAW MEDIAN INCOME PLUNGE 30% SINCE THE YEAR 2000-- DOWN TO $33,000 PER HOUSEHOLD. THAT'S THE SECOND STEEPEST DROP IN WEALTH IN THE NATION.

>> EVERY DAY IS SATURDAY IN THESE THRIVING MOUNTAIN TOWNS.

>> Reporter: THIS WAS WILKESBORO, THE COUNTY SEAT, IN 148-- THEN A PROSPEROUS MOUNTAIN TOWN WITH BUSTLING SHOPS, A BOOMING FURNITURE INDUSTRY AND THRIVING AGRICULTURE. BUT NOW 23.4% OF PEOPLE HERE LIVE IN POVERTY, WELL ABOVE THE NATIONAL RATE OF 14.5%. WHAT DOES POVERTY MEAN? AN INDIVIDUAL MAKING JUST UNDER $12,000 A YEAR. HERE ,THE POULTRY INDUSTRY IS ONE OF THE FEW REMAINING LARGE EMPLOYERS-- TYSON FOODS EMPLOYS 2,600 PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTY. MARK TRUDELL WELCOMED US TO HIS NEW HOME, A TRAILER HE AND HIS WIFE PEGGY JUST MOVED INTO AND ARE IN THE PROCESS OF FIXING UP.

>> WE SHOP AT THE THRIFT STORES. THE HABITAT RESTORE. AND IF IT'S BROKE I FIX IT.

>> Reporter: MARK WORKS STOCKING SHELVES AT A GROCERY STORE FOR MINIMUM WAGE-- $7.25 AN HOUR. AS HIS KITCHEN SHOWS, HE IS HIGHLY ORGANIZED. BUT HE HAS OTHER SKILLS-- LIGHTING AND PLUMBING. HE HELPS HIS NEIGHBORS FOR FREE BUT HAS LITTLE SECURITY FOR HIMSELF.

>> I'VE NEVER EVER, EVER IN MY LIFE, DRAWN UNEMPLOYMENT EVEN THOUGH I WAS ENTITLED TO IT I PAID INTO IT.

>> Reporter: 50-YEAR-OLD DARLA DIETZ LIVES IN A HOME SHE RENTS WITH HER HUSBAND TERRY. TERRY IS 52-YEARS-OLD BUT A DEGENERATIVE BRAIN DISEASE IS ERODING HIS MIND, NOW TO THE CAPACITY OF A 3-YEAR-OLD. THAT MAKES DARLA HIS FULL TIME CAREGIVER-- BATHING HIM, MAKING HIS MEALS, CONSTANTLY WATCHING HIM.

>> HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW MANY CHILDREN WE HAVE-THEIR AGES. IT'S VERY HARD WHEN YOU HAVE A HISTORY WITH SOMEBODY FOR SO LONG, BUT YOU'RE THE ONLY WITH THE MEMORIES.

>> Reporter: THE COUPLE LIVE OFF TERRY'S DISABILITY CHECK: $1,234 A MONTH.

>> I'M OUT OF BENEFITS RIGHT NOW, SO THIS WEEK IT'S GO TO A FOOD PANTRY. IT'S HOPE I SELL A PAIR OF EARRINGS. IT'S GETTING WITH MY DAUGHTER IN LAW. "HEY, WHAT DO YOU HAVE?" AND THAT'S LIFE.

>> Reporter: THE EARRINGS AND JEWELRY SHE SELLS SOMETIMES DETERMINE IF SHE WILL HAVE GAS FOR THE CAR OR DIAPERS FOR HER HUSBAND. GETTING TO OUR NEXT STOP WAS A CHALLENGE-- UP A STEEP MUDDY CLAY ROAD TO DARLA'S DAUGHTER- IN-LAW'S HOUSE. LESLIE DIETZ LIVES WITH HER HUSBAND AND THREE CHILDREN IN HER MOTHER'S TRAILER.

>> MY HUSBAND JUST STARTED WORKING AGAIN. MY MOM, OF COURSE, HAS SOCIAL SECURITY. SHE'S GOT C.O.P.D. THIS IS HER PROPERTY SO LUCKILY WE HAVE MY MOM. IT'S BEEN SINCE, I THINK, LAST YEAR THAT HE WAS WORKING. SO IT'S PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK THERE ARE TIMES WHEN HE WORKS, WHEN HE DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE, LIKE I SAID, WE GET SNOWED IN, RAINED IN, IT'S A HARD PLACE TO BE AT.

>> IF WE HAD A BUNCH OF LOW INCOME AMERICANS IN THIS ROOM, THEY WOULD SAY WHY BOTHER. THEY WOULD SAY WITH REAL JUSTICE NEITHER OF THESE PARTIES PAYS ANY ATTENTION TO THE LIKES OF ME. I'M NOT GOING TO BOTHER WITH POLITICS BECAUSE POLITICS DOESN'T DO ME ANY GOOD.

>> Reporter: GENE NICHOL IS A LAW PROFESSOR AND POVERTY EXPERT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA AT CHAPEL HILL.

>> IN THE UNITED STATES, WITH THE SYSTEM WE HAVE, IT'S A LITTLE CLOSER TO ONE DOLLAR, ONE VOTE THAN IT IS TO ONE PERSON, ONE VOTE. SO POOR PEOPLE ARE ALREADY DISADVANTAGED IN THAT SKEWED SYSTEM. AND THEN LOW INCOME PEOPLE HAVE A TRADITION OF PARTICIPATING LESS OFTEN, LESS VIGOROUSLY.

>> Reporter: THE GAP BETWEEN VOTERS AND NON-VOTERS BREAKS DOWN STRONGLY ALONG CLASS LINES. IN THE 2012 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, 80.2% OF THOSE MAKING MORE THAN $150,000 VOTED, WHILE ONLY 46.9% OF THOSE MAKING LESS THAN $10,000 VOTED. WE ASKED DARLA, LESLIE AND MARK IF THEY THINK CANDIDATES ARE TAKING THEM INTO CONSIDERATION THIS ELECTION YEAR.

>> I DON'T THINK THEY REALIZE THAT THERE'S THIS CLASS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ABLE-BODIED. WHT I WOULD GIVE FOR A FULL TIME JOB AND BENEFITS. THIS IS YOU KNOW... WE TYPICALLY THINK OF POVERTY TO BE A DEMOGRAPHIC YOU NORMALLY ASSOCIATE WITH DOWNTOWN AREAS AND BUT THIS IT TOO AND THEY DON'T SEE THAT.

>> I HEAR ONE TALKING ABOUT TAKING CARE OF OUR CHILDREN AND I HEAR ONE, SAY, GIVING US JOBS. DO I THINK THEY'RE REALLY GOING TO DO IT? NO.

>> Reporter: DO YOU THINK THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT YOU?

>> NO.

>> I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING COME OUT OF A POLITICIAN'S MOUTH THAT WILL HELP US IN A VERY LONG TIME. IF THEY CAME DOWN HERE AND SAW HOW PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY LIVING IN RURAL AMERICA AND THEN MAYBE THEY WILL CHANGE IT OR MAYBE THEY WILL DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF THE COUNTRY IS FALLING APART. AND THERE IS MASS AMOUNTS OF MONEY THAT COULD BE PUT IN REDOING IT AND GIVING PEOPLE WORK TO DO. BUT THEY DON'T SEE IT. THEY DON'T COME DOWN HERE AND LOOK AT THIS.

>> Reporter: DONALD TRUMP HAS MADE CAMPAIGN STOPS IN RURAL PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, INCLUDING ONE IN NEARBY STATESVILLE, NORTH CAROLINA IN AUGUST. BUT UNLIKE HIS RIVAL HILLARY CLINTON, HE DOESN'T HAVE A SPECIFIC PLAN TO COMBAT RURAL POVERTY. SHE DOES. BUT NEITHER CANDIDATE GIVES POVERTY THE ATTENTION OF EARLIER DECADES, LIKE 1964 WHEN PRESIDENT LYNDON JOHNSON WENT ON A "POVERTY TOUR" BEFORE LAUNCHING HIS WAR ON POVERTY. OR 1968, WHEN THEN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE ROBERT F. KENNEDY MADE HIS OWN TWO-DAY TRIP TO INVESTIGATE POVERTY IN APPALACHIA. GENE NICHOL SAYS AMERICANS HAVE LEARNED TO TURN THEIR EYES AWAY FROM POVERTY.

>> WE GO ABOUT OUR DAILY LIVES WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT IT. MAYBE THERE'S ECONOMIC HARDSHIPS BUT IT'S ON THE OTHER SIDE OF TOWN, OR OTHER SIDE OF COUNTY. OR HERE IN THE OTHER SIDE OF STATE. MAYBE THE HARDSHIP IS SO PRONOUNCED THAT IT GIVES THE LIE TO OUR CLAIMS OF EQUAL DIGNITY AND OPPORTUNITY BUT WE NEVER SEE IT.

>> Reporter: MARK TRUDELL IS MAKING A CHANGE. HE'S REGISTERED TO VOTE, AND PLANS ON CASTING HIS FIRST PRESIDENTIAL BALLOT SINCE HE VOTED FOR ROSS PEROT IN 1992. DARLA DIETZ-- SHE'S GOING TO TRY TO MAKE IT TO A POLLING PLACE ON ELECTION DAY, IF SHE CAN GET SOMEONE TO TAKE CARE OF HER HUSBAND. AND FOR LESLIE DIETZ, SHE SAYS POLITICIANS OFFER HER NOTHING, AND SHE TURNS TO FAITH INSTEAD. WE SAW HER TEACHING SUNDAY SCHOOL, A LESSON ABOUT BIBLICAL LEADER MOSES, FOR HER IT'S A QUESTION OF MORALITY.

>> I KIND OF FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT TEACHING THEM IN SUNDAY SCHOOL BECAUSE I CAN MAKE SURE THAT THEY KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RIGHT AND WRONG. WHAT'S MORAL, WHAT'S ETHICAL, YOU KNOW, AND I REALLY DON'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS UNETHICAL.

>> Reporter: SO, SHE HAS NO PLANS TO VOTE THIS NOVEMBER FOR EITHER CANDIDATE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR, I'M LISA DESJARDINS IN WILKES COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA. THE LATEST SHAKE UP IN DONALD TRUMP'S EFFORTS, THE NATIONAL POLITICAL DIRECTOR IS STEPPING DOWN CITING PERSONAL REASONS.

>> Woodruff: THE BATTLE FOR MOSUL IS THE MOST IMPORTANT OF THE TWO-YEAR CAMPAIGN AGAINST ISIS IN IRAQ, AND A DEFEAT THERE WOULD BE A CRIPPLING SETBACK FOR THE EXTREMISTS. WE TURN NOW TO A MAN WITH DETAILED KNOWLEDGE OF THE CITY AND ITS ETHNIC AND SECTARIAN CROSSCURRENTS: RETIRED GENERAL DAVID PETRAEUS WAS IN CHARGE OF THE 101st AIRBORNE DIVISION IN MOSUL IN 2003. HE WENT ON TO COMMAND THE ENTIRE MULTI-NATIONAL FORCE IN IRAQ AND ALSO SERVED AS THE TOP GENERAL FOR U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND. HE ALSO RAN NATO AND AMERICAN OPERATIONS IN AFGHANISTAN AND, FROM 2011 TO 2012, HE SERVED AS DIRECTOR OF THE C.I.A. HE JOINS ME NOW FROM NEW YORK. GENERAL GENERAL PA TRAITION THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Woodruff: DONALD TRUMP CRITICIZED THE PROBE INFORMATION FOR TELEGRAPHING AHEAD OF TIME THE PLAN TO GO INTO MOSUL. DOES DONALD TRUMP HAVE A PLAN ABOUT NOT LETTING THE IN ME WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO.

>> WHAT'S ISATE STRATEGIC SURPRISE WHICH IS NOT POSSIBLE WHEN YOU'RE MOVING TENS OF THOUSANDS OF TROOPS AND THOUSANDS OF VEHICLES AND LOGISTICS AND EVERYTHING ELSE. AND THEN TACTICAL SURPRISE WHICH I THINK PROBABLY WAS ACHIEVED TO SOME DEGREE. WHEN THE IRAQI FORCES LAUNCHED THE OPERATION SEVERAL DAYS AGO AND HAVE CONTINUED AS NEW FENCES, IF YOU WILL, FROM THE NORTH AND THE NORTHEAST IN ADDITION TO THOSE IN THE INITIAL DAY WHICH CAME FROM THE SOUTH AND FROM THE SOUTHEAST AND EASTWOOD WOOD HOW -- YES.

>> Woodruff: HOW DO YOU SEE THE CHALLENGES THE ALLIES FACE. YOU KNOW THE AREA, IT'S CHANGED SINCE THE TAKEOVER BY ISIS. WITH A DO YOU THINK THEY'RE CONFRONTING.

>> WELL FIRST OF OF COURSE THEY'RE CONFRONTING WHAT WOULD BE A TOUGH FIGHT IN A CITY THAT'S SEVERAL TIMES LARGER THAN ANY THEY HAVE CLEARED SO FAR OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST TWO YEARS SINCE WE HELPED THEM RECONSTITUTE THEIR FORCES, REEQUIP, RETRAIN AND REMAIN THM AND WITH THIS ARMADA OF MANNED AND UNMANNED ARIAL VEHICLES, PRECISION STRIKE ASSETS AND INTELLIGENCE FUSION AS WELL AS OBVIOUSLY RISING AND ASSISTING THEM. AND THEY'RE HE'LL -- ENCOUNTERA TOUGH FIGHT. IT'S INHERENTLY DIFFICULT. THE ENEMY HAS BEEN THERE FOR A COUPLE YEARS. DUG TUNNEL TRENCHES THEY'LL TRY TO SCORCH TO TRY TO OBSCURE OPTICS. THEY'LL USE SNIPERS AND EVERY SINGLE HOUSE, EVERY SINGLE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS TO BE CLEARED. THIS IS A POPULATION THAT USED IN OUR DAY WHEN I WAS COMMANDING THE 101ST AIRBORNE DIVISION IN MOSUL IS SOME TWO MILLION PEOPLE. IT'S DOWN PROBABLY TO 1.2 MILLION NOW. SOME WE WILL LEAVE AND GO TO THE REFUGEES CENTERS TO TAKE CARE OF THEM DURING THE BATTLE. SOME WILL STAY AND BE TRAPPED THERE, USED AS HUMAN SHEALTSDZ AND OTHER FACTORS FOR THE IRAQI FORCES AND INDEED FOR OUR ELENTS THAT ARE SUPPORTING THEM IN THIS FIGHT.

>> Woodruff: I DO WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE CHALLENGES THE IRAQIS FACE. EVEN IF MOSUL IS CLEARED OF ISIS. FIRST ARE YOU CONFIDENT THEY WILL BE ABLE TO GET ISIS OUT OF MOSUL AND DO YOU THINK IT COULD TAKE AS LONG AS A YEAR WHICH THE HEAD OF CENTRAL COMMAND HAS SAID IT MIGHT.

>> I THINK WITH RESPECT HE SAID IT COULD TAKE MONTHS I THINK. UNDERSTANDALLY HE'S GIVING A BIT OF THE WORST CASE ANALYSIS. IT'S ALREADY MOVING FASTER THAN MOST PREDICTED. I'VE SAID THE ISLAMIC STATE FIGHTERS LEFT IN MOSUL MAYBE AS MANY AS FIVE OR 6,000 WE REALIZE THEY ARE DEAD MEN WALKING. THERE'S NO QUESTION THE IRAQI SECURITY FORCES AND ALL THE ENABLES PROVIDING THEM IS GOING TO CLEAR THAT CITY. THAT'S NOT IN QUESTION. THE ONLY QUESTION IS HOW LONG DO THE ISLAMIC STATE FIGHTERS REALLY PUT UP RESISTANTS. THERE'S REPORTS ALREADY OF WHOM HAVE BEEN EXECUTED AND LEADERS TRYING TO LEAVE THE CITY AS WELL. IN FACT ONE OF THE BIG QUESTIONS THAT IS OUT THERE RIGHT NOW IS WHERE IS BAGHDADI THE LEADERS OF THE ISLAMIC STATE. IS HE TRAPPED THERE WITH ONE OF HIS EXPLOSIVES EXPERTS OR DID E ESCAPE AND TRY TO GET BACK TO THE BORDER OF SYRIA. NO QUESTION THE IRAQI FORCES WILL PREVAIL. THE BIGGER QUESTION IS ACTUALLY THE BATTLE AFTER THIS. I HAVE MADE CLEAR IN WRITING A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT THE MOST COMPLEX HUMAN TERRAIN IN ALL IS TO BE FOUND IN MOSUL AND THE PROVINCE OF WHICH IT IS A CAPITOL. A BIBLICAL. THERE ARE SUNNI ARABS, BUT THERE ARE SUNNI AS WELL AS SHI'A. THERE ARE CURRED COMING FROM A POLITICAL PARTY NOT IN AGREEMENT WITH EACH OTHER. SIZEABLE MEMBERS OF CHRISTIANS WHO WERE TREATED HORRIBLY UNDER THE ISLAMIC STATE AND WANT TO GET BACK TO THEIR AREAS. ALL OF THESE WANT TO GET BACK FROM WHENCE THEY CAME AND THEY WANT TO PLAY A PART IN GOVERNANCE THAT FOLLOWS. AND ALL WILL WANT TO BE REPRESENTED AND WANT THAT GOVERNMENT TO BE RESPONSIVE TO THEM AND GUARANTEE THEIR MINORITY RIGHTS AS THEY'RE NOT THE SUNNI ARABS, IN ADDITION TO OF COURSE THE SUNNI ARAB MAJORITY RULE. THIS IS GOING TO BE VERY VERY DIFFICULT. WE DID ACHIEVE IT EARLY ON IN 2003 WHEN I WAS COMMANDER. WE HAD 28,000 GREAT AMERICAN SOLDIERS, WE HAD 254 HELICOPTERS AND I HAD THE AUTHORITY OF BEING AN OCCUPYING COMMANDER UNDER THE GENEVA CONVENTION. AND DIDN'T HESITATE FRANKLY TO USE THAT AUTHORITY. THERE'S NO EQUIVALENT POWER THERE AT THIS POINT IN TIME. SO THIS IS GOING TO TAKE INTENSE POLITICS, INTENSE NEGOTIATIONS AND A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS UNDOUBTEDLY DEMONSTRATING THE FULL RANGE OF THE MOTIONS ALONG THE WAY.

>> Woodruff: SO ARE YOU CONFIDENT THAT THE CURRENT IRAQI GOVERNMENT IS PREPARED TO DO WHAT'S NECESSARY TO MAKE SURE THAT MOSUL IS STABLE GOING FORWARD.

>> I'M CONFIDENT THAT THEY WILL DO EVERYTHING THEY POSSIBLY CAN. THE QUESTION IS WHETHER TRANALLY THAT IS GOING TO BE ENOUGH. THERE ARE GOING TO BE ENORMOUS GRIEVANCES, THERE WILL BE SCORES THAT SOME WANT TO SETTLE. EVEN WITHIN THE SECTARIAN GROUPINGS AND ETHNIC GROUPINGS, THERE WILL BE SQUABBLES AND DISPUTE. HE KNOWS THEY HAVE TO BE INCLUDED, THE SUNNI ARABS HAVE TO BE BROUGHT BACK INTO THE FABRIC OF SOCIETY AS WE WERE ABLE TO DO DURING THE SURGE. ONE OF A HUGE ACCOMPLISH OTHERS WHICH SADLY WAS UNDONE THREE AND-A-HALF YEARS AFTER THE END OF THE SURGE BY THE PREVIOUS PRIME MINISTER WHO TOOK HIGHLY SECTARIAN ACTIONS THAT INFLAMMED THAT PART OF THE POPULATION. ALLOWED THE ISLAMIC STATE TO GET UP OFF ITS STOMACH AND CREATED IF YOU ARE FULL FIELDS FOR THE PLANTING OF EXTREMISM. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ACQUAINTED WITH THAT FORM OF EXTREMISM. THEY WANT NOTHING OF IT. PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY REPORTEDLY RISING UP AGAINST ISLAMIC STATE AND SOME OF THE PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF MOSUL WILL DO THAT AND SOME MOSUL NEIGHBORHOODS AS WELL.

>> Woodruff: QUICKLY. FOR THE U.S. IN ALL OF THIS IS, IS IT ESSENTIAL THE U.S. HAVE A ON ROLE HERE OR NOT.

>> IT IS ESSENTIAL THE U.S. HAS A ROLE. I CAN ASSURE YOU THE NEW AMBASSADOR, THE NEW COMMANDER ON THE GROUND. BOTH EXPERIENCES, THEY HAD MULTIPLE TOURS IN THEIR PAST YEARS THEY ARE KEENLY AWARE THEY HAVE TO ENGAGE IN THAT. AS IS THE SPECIAL PRESIDENTIAL ENJOY WHO SPENT AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF TIME IN BAGHDAD UP IN KURDISH REGIONAL GOVERNMENT CAPITOL TRYING TO FOSTER ALL OF THIS. THAT'S THE EXTENT WHAT WE CAN DO. WE CAN ENCOURAGE, WE CAN CAJOLE. WE CAN'T FORCE AND IT IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE IRAQIS AT THE END OF THE DAY THAT COME TOGETHER, RECOGNIZING IF THEY CANNOT FERTILE FEAPTDZ WILL BE PLANTED FOR THE PLANNING OF THE SEEDS OF A FURTHER EXTREMISM IN IRAQI.

>> Woodruff: GENERAL PETRAEUS, WE THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> GREAT TO BE BACK WITH YOU, JUDY. THANK YOU.

>> Woodruff: ONE SUBJECT THAT'S GOTTEN LESS ATTENTION IN THE NATIONAL ELECTION IS CLIMATE CHANGE, AND WHAT SHOULD OR BUT IN THE NORTHWEST, THERE'S AN IMPORTANT BATTLE OVER A CARBON TAX BALLOT INITIATIVE IN WASHINGTON STATE NEXT MONTH. IT WOULD BE THE FIRST CARBON TAX OF ITS KIND IN THE U.S., AND THE ECONOMICS CORRESPONDENT PAUL SOLMAN HAS THE STORY FOR HIS WEEKLY SERIES, "MAKING SENSE."

>> YOU MIGHT BE AN ECONOMIST IF YOU DON'T READ HUMAN INTEREST STORIES BECAUSE THEY DON'T INTEREST YOU.

>> Reporter: AT SEATTLE'S MUSEUM OF FLIGHT EARLIER THIS YEAR, CLIMATE NIGHT. HEADLINING, YORAM BAUMAN, WHO CLAIMS, WITH A STRAIGHT FACE, THAT HE'S THE WORLD'S FIRST AND ONLY ECONOMIC COMIC.

>> YOU MIGHT BE AN ECONOMIST IF YOU HAVE EVER GONE INTO A BANK OR OTHER FINANCIAL INSTITUTION IN THE HOPES OF GETTING A DATE. IF YOU ADAMANTLY REFUSE TO SELL YOUR CHILDREN BECAUSE YOU THINK THEY WILL BE WORTH MORE LATER.

>> Reporter: BUT WHEN WE VISITED SEATTLE IN APRIL, BAUMAN HAD BEGUN A DEAD SERIOUS FIGHT: TO COMBAT CLIMATE CHANGE IN HIS HOME STATE OF WASHINGTON, BY IMPOSING A TAX ON CARBON EMISSIONS. HE'D FOUNDED A GRASSROOTS GROUP, CARBON WASHINGTON, TO PUT THE ISSUE TO VOTERS.

>> INITIATIVE 732, IT'S GOING TO BE ON THE NOVEMBER BALLOT.

>> I-732 WORKS BY CHARGING POLLUTERS WITH A CARBON FEE, WHICH LOWERS POLLUTION.

>> AND THEN THE REVENUE THAT IS CREATED WILL GO TO REDUCING OTHER TAXES IN THE STATE.

>> Reporter: MAKING THE CARBON TAX, STARTING AT $25 PER TON OF C.O.-2, ABOUT 25 CENTS PER GALLON OF GASOLINE, REVENUE- NEUTRAL.

>> THE REVENUE FROM THE CARBON TAX GOES TO CUT EXISTING TAXES. MOST OF IT GOES TO CUT THE STATE SALES TAX BY A FULL PERCENTAGE POINT. MOST HOUSEHOLDS ARE GOING TO PAY A FEW HUNDRED DOLLARS A YEAR MORE FOR FOSSIL FUELS AND A FEW HUNDRED DOLLARS A YEAR LESS FOR EVERYTHING ELSE.

>> Reporter: EVERYONE WILL PAY THE CARBON TAX, SAYS BAUMAN; EVERYONE GETS THE SALES TAX CUT. BUT TWO GROUPS GET A BONUS. THE FIRST, WORKING FAMILIES WHO'D BE HARDEST HIT BY A RISE IN ENERGY PRICES.

>> IT'S GOING TO PROVIDE UP TO $1,500 A YEAR FOR 400,000 WORKING FAMILIES IN WASHINGTON STATE.

>> Reporter: FAMILIES LIKE JASON PURACAL'S.

>> YES, I'LL PAY A LITTLE BIT MORE IN FOSSIL FUEL USE. HOWEVER THE SALES TAX DROP OF ONE PERCENT WILL OFFSET THAT. AND SO, I SHOULDN'T SEE A CHANGE IN MY SPENDING OVERALL.

>> Reporter: IN ADDITION, BUSINESSES WHOSE HIGHER ENERGY COSTS WOULD MAKE THEM UNCOMPETITIVE WITH RIVALS ELSEWHERE WILL HAVE THE STATE BUSINESS TAX ELIMINATED. STILL NOT ENOUGH FOR IAN TOLLESON, THOUGH, WHO LOBBIES FOR FOOD PROCESSORS IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST.

>> WE HEAT THINGS, WE CUT THINGS, WE WASH, AND THIS IS ALL FOR FOOD SAFETY. AND THAT REQUIRES A LOT OF ENERGY, TAX, TAX, TAX ALL THROUGH THE SUPPLY CHAIN. AND WHAT THAT DOES, OUR PRODUCTS ARE NOW MORE EXPENSIVE ON THE SHELF. AND HOW CAN WE COMPETE WITH THOSE PRODUCERS THAT WOULDN'T HAVE THIS TAX?

>> Reporter: WE MET UP WITH TOLLESON AT SEATTLE'S PIKE PLACE MARKET, WHICH FEATURED, AMONG OTHER ATTRACTIONS, THE WORLD'S PRESUMABLY FIRST AND ONLY HULA- HOOPING, GUITAR-ON-CHIN- BALANCING BUSKER. MOREOVER, SAYS TOLLESON...

>> THIS IS A GLOBAL PHENOMENON AND IT NEEDS A GLOBAL SOLUTION. IS IT FAIR TO PUT IT ON THE BACK OF WASHINGTON EMPLOYERS AND FAMILIES?

>> Reporter: BUT WHAT REALLY STRUCK US, BACK IN THE SPRING WHEN WE STARTED COVERING THIS STORY, WAS OPPOSITION TO I-732 FROM PEOPLE WHO IDENTIFY AS ENVIRONMENTALISTS, LIKE UNION PRESIDENT JEFF JOHNSON.

>> DURING THE WINTER, WE HAVE BEEN STRUCK WITH REPEATED FLOODS AND MUDSLIDES. IN THE SUMMER, WE HAVE DROUGHTS AND FOREST FIRES. OUR SHELLFISH INDUSTRY HAS LEFT THE STATE AND GONE TO HAWAII BECAUSE THE ACID LEVELS IN THE OCEAN HAS RISEN SO MUCH.

>> Reporter: BUT DOESN'T THAT MEAN THAT YOU SHOULD EMBRACE ANYTHING THAT WOULD HELP CLIMATE CHANGE AND COUNTERACT IT?

>> NO, IT DOESN'T. WE HAVE GOT AN ENERGY-INTENSIVE COMPANY, KAISER ALUMINUM OUT IN SPOKANE, EASTERN SIDE OF OUR STATE. IT'S THE MOST EFFICIENT ALUMINUM ROLLING MILL IN THE WORLD, RIGHT? WITH JUST A CARBON PRICE, THEY BECOME LESS COMPETITIVE WITH ALUMINUM MAKERS IN OTHER PARTS OF THE STATES, IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD.

>> Reporter: OKAY, MAYBE A UNION LEADER, HOWEVER GREEN, HAS TO WORRY, FIRST AND FOREVER, ABOUT JOBS, EVEN IF IT MEANS AN UNUSUAL ALLIANCE WITH BUSINESS. BUT THEN WE MET JILL MANGALIMAN. WHAT DOES THAT SHIRT SAY?

>> OH, YES, THIS IS WHERE - WE'RE GOT GREEN. WE ARE A COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATION IN SOUTH SEATTLE LED BY PEOPLE OF COLOR.

>> Reporter: BUT WHY WOULD A MILITANT ENVIRONMENTAL GROUP OPPOSE A CARBON TAX?

>> WITHOUT ANY KIND OF TARGETED REVENUE, BUSINESS CAN CONTINUE AS USUAL, AND THAT'S NOT WHAT WE WANT.

>> Reporter: MORE TARGETED REVENUE THAN THE $1,500-A-YEAR SUBSIDY TO HER CONSTITUENTS. AND FOR LOCAL GROUPS LIKE GOT GREEN. MEANWHILE, IT WAS ALSO SURPRISING TO FIND OUT WHO WAS POPPING UP IN SUPPORT. RIGHT WING POLICY LOBBYIST TODD MYERS, FOR INSTANCE.

>> ANYTHING THAT MOVES ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY AWAY FROM REGULATION, WHICH IS VERY HIGH- COST AND INEFFECTIVE, TOWARD A PERSONAL INCENTIVE, WHICH IS MORE EFFECTIVE, IS A GOOD THING.

>> Reporter: A GOOD THING, AGREES JASON PURACAL, WHO HAPPENS TO BE AN ARDENT ENVIRONMENTALIST.

>> IT'S GREAT TO PUT A PRICE ON CARBON AND TRY TO MOVE US AWAY FROM FOSSIL FUELS, BUT HOW DO WE DO SO IN A WAY THAT'S EQUITABLE FOR ALL?

>> Reporter: AND THAT QUESTION MAY BE WHY, IN THE SIX MONTHS SINCE OUR REPORT AIRED, POLLS HAVE REMAINED EVENLY SPLIT; THE PRO AND CON BEDFELLOWS AS ODD AS EVER. INDEED, THE ONLY MAJOR ENVIRONMENTAL GROUP TO BACK THE INITIATIVE IS THE AUDUBON SOCIETY. AMONG THOSE WHO DO NOT: THE NATIONAL SIERRA CLUB, BASED IN CALIFORNIA, WHICH OVERRULED LOCAL WASHINGTON STATE MEMBERS TO DECLARE THAT THE SIERRA CLUB DOES NOT SUPPORT I-732. AREN'T YOU AT ALL CONCERNED THAT IF THIS INITIATIVE FAILS, IN PART BECAUSE YOU FOLKS DON'T SUPPORT IT, IT WILL SET BACK THE CLIMATE CHANGE MOVEMENT?

>> NO, NOT AT ALL. WE BELIEVE THAT THERE'S A BETTER WAY THAT HELPS US GET OFF FOSSIL FUELS BUT ACCELERATES A TRANSITION TO CLEAN ENERGY.

>> Reporter: THAT BETTER WAY, SAYS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MIKE BRUNE, WOULD INVOLVE RAISING MORE MONEY THAN A REVENUE NEUTRAL TAX, AND FUNNELING IT TO CLEAN ENERGY PROJECTS, AND TO THOSE WHO'D SUFFER FROM HIGHER ENERGY PRICES.

>> WHAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR IS A SET OF POLICIES THAT WILL SIMULTANEOUSLY PUT A PRICE ON CARBON, SO THAT THE ECONOMY SHIFTS TOWARDS GOOD FAMILY SUSTAINING JOBS IN THE CLEAN ENERGY SECTOR. AND IS DIRECTING FUNDS TOWARDS LOW INCOME COMMUNITIES, COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF POLLUTION IN THE STATE.

>> Reporter: AS FOR THE LACK OF NEW INVESTMENT MONEY FOR CLEAN ENERGY, WELL, THAT'S JUST WHY GREG MANKIW, FORMER HEAD OF GEORGE W. BUSH'S COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISORS, FINDS A REVENUE-NEUTRAL CARBON TAX SO APPEALING.

>> THE FIRST PRINCIPLE OF ECONOMICS IS THAT PEOPLE RESPOND TO INCENTIVES. WHAT CARBON TAX TRIES TO DO IS TRY TO HARNESS THAT PRINCIPLE TO GET PEOPLE TO REDUCE THEIR CARBON FOOTPRINT.

>> Reporter: BUT THERE IS A CASE TO BE MADE, ISN'T THERE, THAT WE OUGHT TO INVEST IN CLEAN ENERGY AND HERE'S A REVENUE SOURCE WE CAN USE TO MAKE THOSE INVESTMENTS.

>> IF YOU GIVE PEOPLE THE RIGHT INCENTIVES, THEN THE PRIVATE SECTOR WILL BE SMART ENOUGH TO MAKE THE RIGHT INVESTMENTS.

>> PUTTING A PRICE ON CARBON CAN BE GREAT POLICY. BUT THAT'S NOT ALL THAT'S NEEDED. WE NEED TO FIND A WAY TO ADDRESS THE CONSTITUENCIES IN A PARTICULAR STATE.

>> Reporter: HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THE CRITICISM THAT YOU'RE ESSENTIALLY CATERING TO CERTAIN CONSTITUENCIES HERE, RATHER THAN INDEPENDENTLY ANALYZING?

>> THAT SEEMS A LITTLE SILLY. I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT TWO OF THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES WE FACE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE CLIMATE CHANGE AND ECONOMIC INEQUALITY. IF WE PIT ONE OF THOSE CHALLENGES AGAINST THE OTHER, NEITHER WILL BE SUCCESSFUL.

>> Reporter: BUT WILL ANYTHING BE SUCCESSFUL, ASKS GREG MANKIW, IF WE TRY TO ADDRESS BOTH OF THOSE, AND MORE, IN ONE PACKAGE?

>> PEOPLE ON THE LEFT SAY THEY WANT TO COMBINE A CARBON TAX WITH ALL THEIR PRO SPENDING AGENDA, SOMEONE ON THE FAR RIGHT COULD SAY, GEE, I LOVE A CARBON TAX AS LONG AS WE USE IT TO REDUCE THE ESTATE TAX. SO WHAT I-732 TRIES TO DO IS IT TRIES TO FRAME THE ISSUE RELATIVELY NARROWLY SO WE CAN ALL COME TOGETHER AND REACH A CONSENSUS ON THIS RATHER THAN BUNDLING IT TOGETHER WITH A LOT OF EXTRANEOUS ISSUES, PERHAPS IMPORTANT ISSUES, BUT EXTRANEOUS TO THE ISSUE OF PUTTING A PRICE ON CARBON.

>> Reporter: LAST WORD GOES TO YORAM BAUMAN, THE WORLD'S FOREMOST STANDUP ECONOMIST, AND, GIVEN HIS LONG ENVIRONMENTAL TRACK RECORD, PERHAPS ITS GREENEST.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS I LOVE ABOUT THIS POLICY IS IT DOES HAVE POTENTIAL FOR BIPARTISAN SUPPORT. IT'S NOT BIG GOVERNMENT. IT'S NOT SMALLER GOVERNMENT. IT'S JUST, HOW DO WE MAKE THE TAX SYSTEM FAIRER AND MORE SUSTAINABLE? THAT'S A POWERFUL MESSAGE THAT HOPEFULLY WE CAN TAKE AROUND THE COUNTRY.

>> Reporter: HOW THE VOTERS OF WASHINGTON STATE RESPOND TO THE MESSAGE WILL BE KNOWN ON NOVEMBER 8. THIS IS NEWSHOUR ECONOMICS CORRESPONDENT PAUL SOLMAN.

>> Sreenivasan: NOW TO ANOTHER IN OUR "BRIEF BUT SPECTACULAR" SERIES WHERE WE ASK INTERESTING PEOPLE TO SHARE THEIR PASSIONS. TONIGHT, CASTING DIRECTOR DAVID RUBIN, WHO'S MORE THAN ONE HUNDRED FILM CREDITS INCLUDE

>> THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR AN ACTOR TO BRING TO THE TABLE IS THEMSELVES. THEIR EVEN IDIOSYNCRASY. SOME OF THE ACTORS GET PREOCCUPIED WITH WHAT THEY THINK THE FILMMAKER IS LOOKING FOR. AND FRANKLY WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR IS THEM. ONE OF MY FIRST JOBS WAS WORKING ON A PRODUCTION STAFF AT SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE. HE WAS A LOWLY PRODUCTION ASSISTANT. IT WAS THE LAST TWO SEE ENDS OF THE ORIGINAL CASH, JOHN BELUSHI, DAN AYKROYD, GILL DE RADNER, JANE CURTIN. SHE HIRED ME AND IT WAS KISMET. SOMETIMES THERE WAS VERY SPECIFIC DESCRIPTIONS OF THE CHARACTERS AND THE FIRST THING I DO IS FORGET THOSE DESCRIPTIONS. BECAUSE WRITERS WRITE VERY SPECIFICALLY NOT FOR THE CASTING DIRECTOR OR NOT FOR THE DIRECTOR BUT FOR THE STUDIO EXECUTIVE OR THE FINANCIER. THE TEMPTATION ON THE PART OF THE FILMMAKER MIGHT BE JUST TO ASSUME IT WAS A WHITE MALE IN THEIR 40'S OR 50'S. WHY COULDN'T IT BE AN ASIAN PERSON IN THEIR 30'S. WHY CAN'T IT BE A LITTLE PERSON. WHY COULDN'T IT BE A LATINO. RACIAL DIVERSITY. JERN DIVERSITY. THEY COME INTO PLAY WITH A CONVERSATION WITH A FILMMAKER WHEN YOU HAVE DIFFERENT APPROACHES TO A PARTICULAR CAST. THERE ARE PIONEERS IN CASTING THAT OPEN THE DOORS TO THE PROCESS IN GENERAL AND THIS REALLY HAPPENED AFTER WHEN STUDIOS NO LONGER HAD ACTORS UNDER CONTRACT. THEY NEEDED WHO WERE GOING TO DIRECT THE CASTING PROCESS. THE FIRST INDEPENDENT MOTION CAST ARE OF MOTION PICTURES WHO CAST WEST SIDE STORY AND THE GRADUATE. THEY LOOKED LARGE AND WIDE BEFORE DUSTIN HOFFMAN AND SECURE GOT THAT ROLE. THEY WERE DOING THE SAME GROUND BREAKING WORK. IT WAS CASTING PEOPLE WITH IDIOSYNCRASY. THE THING THAT KEEPS THIS JOB FRESH IS THE VARIETY. I'VE CAST OVER A HUNDRED MOTION PICTURES. WHEN I LOOK OVER IT I GET TIRED. JUST LIKE AN ACTOR DOESN'T WANT TO BE TYPE PASSED, I DON'T WANT TO BE TYPE PASSED EITHER. VERY NEAR OF HOW TO ESCAPE GUANTANAMO BAY. SOMETIMES WHEN AN ACTOR COMES IN AND THEY GET WHAT THEY THINKS A BOTCHED EDITION, SOMETHING GOES WRONG IN THE SCENE AND OFTEN THOSE ARE THE MOST ILLUMINATING ADDITIONS TO ME. THOSE KIND OF ORGANIC MODEL WHERE AN ACTOR CONNECTS WITH A CHARACTER EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY NOT EVEN REALIZE THEY WERE DOING IT. MY NAME IS DAVID RUBIN AND THIS IS MY BRIEF BUT SPECTACULAR TAE ON CASTING.

>> Sreenivasan: AND THAT'S THE NEWSHOUR FOR TONIGHT. I'M HARI SREENIVASAN.

>> Woodruff: AND I'M JUDY WOODUFF. JOIN US ONLINE, AND AGAIN HERE TOMORROW EVENING WITH MARK SHIELDS AND DAVID BROOKS. FOR ALL OF US AT THE PBS NEWSHOUR, THANK YOU AND GOOD GHT.

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>> AND WITH THE ONGOING SUPPORT OF THESE INSTITUTIONS

>> THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING. AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU. Captioning sponsored by NEWSHOUR PRODUCTIONS, LLC Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org EP Ann THIS "NIGHTLY >>> THE CLOUDS LIFT. MICROS CLOUD BUSINESS SHOWS GROWTH OFFSETTING A WEAK PC MARKET AND HELPING TO PROP UP REVE FOR THE QUARTER IN THE STOCK AFTER HOURS. >>> WE'RE BRINGING IT FROM 1% TO 4%. I THINK WE CAN GO HIGH THAN 4%.

>> TRUMP WANTS THE ECONOMY TO RETURN TO THE GOOD OLD DAYS OF 4% GROWTH. WHY HAS IT BEEN SO HARD TO ACHIEV >>> PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES AREN THE ONLY ONES WHO DON'T LIKE THE PACIFIC RIM TRADE DEAL. CHINA DOE EITHER. THOSE STO AND MORE ON "NIGHT >>> GOOD EV EVERYONE, AND WELCOM