The President and the Courts

A honey, is there anyone there who could, let's see if I can find one of the girls or someone here just to keep the door protected so they can put a spell by, you know, screaming, hey Sam! Ms. Gypsy Rosalie in San Francisco, now, Ms. Lee, there's an old politician saying it's that, uh, either you eat life or it eats you. What's that? What? Either you eat life or it eats you. Do you agree? Something that Bertolt Brecht might have written. Well, I got it from a model of random pictures, a matter of fact, but I think it is a Tahitian saying. I think they were sort of bitten by Brecht, frankly, and even a Tahitian could get bitten by Brecht, you know. Yes. You think so? Well, what about the philosophy of life? What do you think? Oh, I don't believe in that at all. I couldn't possibly. Monday, Wednesday is a Friday. it in one way? No, Tuesday is another? No, no. Okay. I think that life would be much easier for most of us if instead of even contemplating that type of philosophy, if one would just try putting out a hand occasionally, always find someone who is willing to grasp it and sometimes help you along the way.

Well, there's an old Navy saying that goes with that, but I can't repeat that one on the air. Well, the Navy, after all, know, you can't do it that way though, because the Navy is primarily to sort of toughen up people. The same hand is supposed to punch you in the nose. It begins with, if you have a buddy brave and true, that's the first line. Let's go on to other profound matters of cultural history. I've been reading a book, The Night They Rated Minsky's, and I want to ask if you were there. No, no, no. I do know the man who wrote the book though. Mr. Roland Barber. Yes. It's a pretty good book. I thought so. No, that was a nasty question, because I know it's They were going to make a musical of that. No, not necessarily before my time. April 20th, 1925. Well, before I was in burlesque, but I was in show business. Were you? Yes. And they weren't going to do a musical of this? Yes, I died, and there was great talk about it. The story's true or apocryphal, for instance, the Professor It all depends on how you would

like to view the Minsky's. As an audience, perhaps you'd have one opinion of them, and as someone who worked for them, you'd have another. I was reading about the girl called Giggles, and the Professor, the girl committed suicide. It was sort of like out of soap opera. Could happen. This is an anecdotal book, and probably some of the things are true and others legendary. Well, Roland has just taken stories that people have told him, and we all have a tendency to glamorize the past, color it a little bit. Because people are now writing or doing the history of burlesque. You see something that Lou Lara did for omnibus a few years ago. was magnificent. Called burlesque. Burtlar. Burtlar, sorry. Burtlar, and that's what Thurlman wrote. That's getting wonderful as it was. thought it was wonderful. And I'm interested to know what were people like Morton Minsky lied as a man? I didn't know them terribly well. As bosses, they were pretty tough to work for, but as men, I really couldn't say. And it seemed to me they were very

complicated. Leon Trotsky, I take, was a friend of one of the Minsky's. Really? didn't know any of them socially. I see, I see. Now, to talk about yourself and your career, I've been re -reading your book, and that of your sister, Erdi Havik. Yes. Now, your book, of course, is called Gypsy. Yes. That goes without saying. Now, the picture of Rose Havik is mighty different in your book from that of your sister. The dust jacket in our book is pretty mean. You're familiar with it? Oh, she doesn't mean it to be mean. I think if you take any two sisters or any two brothers of a whole wide world and ask them to remember certain instances of their childhood, and they will invariably give you different answers, because our memories play peculiar tricks on us. We have our own ways of making the past, well, the palatable isn't the word, livable perhaps. Yes, sure. my sister didn't find it as amusing as I. And, of course, there were

many reasons why she didn't find it as amusing. June worked much harder than I did. She was the star of the act. And when she wasn't on the stage acting, dancing, singing, knocking herself to pieces, she was backstage smiling and curtsy. As a child? Of course. You see, being the star, it was very difficult for a little girl to go through all of this. And she couldn't... Oh, I'm trying to find a nice word that would... I don't mean necessarily a nice word, but I mean a descriptive word. I can't think of it. I could sit in the dressing room with a detective story, or I could be out playing jacks for the other boys in the act. I didn't have to worry about these things. See, the anecdotes are similar. That's what interest me. For instance, you have your mother standing in an Indian costume, and how funny. Well, this is after June had left the act, of course. Yes, but June tells the story of how your mother swiped a male impersonator's wig. And in her book, How Sad, it's all really a perspective of the facts are

reconcilable, the facts of your stories are the same. at the wig was swiped. It wasn't a female impersonator's wig, it was a blonde wig. And mother didn't like anyone else on the bill being a blonde, because she figured it would detract from June. But a did all sorts of things like this. You see, mother was from a non -professional school in the first place. Mother was not brought up in the theatre. And she thought that because she was alone in the world with two children to support, that it was, well, the Brecht theory, or the Brecht philosophy of life, doggy dog. Is that Brecht? I'm going to Brechtie in all my life, I just found it out. Well, that's an unhappy way to go. My mother believed me, too. And I'm awfully glad it didn't impress me as a child. at all, because I disapprove of it hardly. It's not a matter

of conscious choice. I think it's a matter of biology rather than one's conscious choice. I'd like to think so anyway, I'm not so sure. You have to discriminate. I'm not going to say that everyone is filled with sweetness and light, but it's just as easy to look for that as it is to look for a bitter side of a person. We all have that side, too. But most people, I think, would like to hide that if they possibly could. We have our better side, and this is the side we like to use. We're all nice and terrible people. You begin your book by discussing your mother with your son, Eric, and he used the word nice, and you smile and you say, well, nice is not the word they would use. say my mother, as I remember her, was resourceful, energetic, ambitious, Charming, ruthless in a ladylike way. She was never really nice. Not in my sense of the word, anyway. Nice used to mean discriminating, but now it means pretty goody, doesn't it? No, I don't mean to claim that. My mother wasn't discriminating either. She sounds formidable and very admirable. She was very young -looking,

very pretty, men found her extremely attractive, and she was gentle on the surface. But inside, she had a firm hand on the situation at all times, and it was a burning ambition. That's in the song, Rose's Turn. Yeah. And what about the line, maybe this is a hard question for you to answer, Lyric, just where would you be, Gypsy Rosely, without me? Just where would you be, Miss Gypsy Rosely, if it wasn't for me? Me. Me. That's lovely, but can you answer that question? Of it's so simple. She says it. What she believes is that without her pushing me and crawling over the bodies of those who stood in her way, that I would have just been the other, well, the rear end of the cowl, really, what I'd started out being. But that is... You don't feel

that way. It's not. it's not, because by the time mother had a chance to say this, I'd been managing my own affairs for several years, and it wasn't until I managed my own affairs that there was any occasion for her to say it. You know, in Brooklyn, we used to have a saying, saying if my grandmother had wheels, she would have been in a automobile. It's really impossible to change the patterns. You can't tell. I joke very often when things are going terribly wrong. If I'd listened to my mother, I'd be playing an accordion today. Because really, that was mother's idea of talent. You either had to play for the piano, and she knew that took too long. You had to be able to sing, and I wasn't born with a voice. You had to be able to dance. I was born with two left feet. Some other thought the best thing to do would be to buy me an accordion. And, of course, it pinched. People joke about this, but they really do, you know. And it hid the best part of me. You would say that you would agree that your mother did you girls no

harm, but you're both stars. Sometimes people are what they are in spite of things, not because of them. Okay, okay. think that if I wanted my child, oh no. That's vastly different, I believe. I think if I wanted my child to become a star, I would give them some tools to work with. Some advantages. We had none of these. We never had any lessons. We did the same act for 14 years. I was doing the same act when I went into burlesque. The same act I had done when I first stepped a foot on a stage back in Seattle, Washington. Is that the cow act? No, no. That was my sister's. I was the rear end of the cow. I don't count that because I don't think my personality had a chance to assert it. No, I agree, yes. What was the act I'd be interested in? When I did, I'm a hard -boiled rose. I see. Yes, it's in your book. That was my specialty. That's the song I sang when I was a little bit of a girl. I was four years old. I did

that same number when I went into burlesque when I was 15. And then when you developed your own routines? Well, yes. Gradually as the years went on? You have any routines. It's just that you... When you haven't any talent, you're sort of compensated. You had a loss that's from bowling, starring Gypsy Rose Lee. I've been quitting from your book now. That was a Minsky title. I see. And it nothing to do with your act. It was the title he made it up. It was like the name of a lot of pictures. A lot of movies have very little to do with a movie when you get around to it. Oh, well, these were just catchy titles. When Gowns by Roberta, with Bob Hope, incidentally, was playing across the street at the Amsterdam Theater, Billy Minsky had a great big signing, but at his theater, called Dresses by Gimbles. I see, I see. was just that kind of a joke. No, where was Minsky's theater? used to go to the Irving Theater. 42nd Street, across the street from the Amsterdam. That was later. It Minsky's theater. And what about the Republic Theater that you talk about? It is the Republic. And nothing to do with

Houston Street, the one that... Oh, no, no, I never played that. That was the one downtown. Well, that one was torn down by then. That was the old National on Second Avenue. I never played that theater. I see. Minsky's every union square near Klein's at the Irving Theater? No, that not Minsky's theater. That was Werba's theater. I see. Well, all these things should be straightened out. Oh, God, it doesn't really matter. I tried to straighten out yesterday's ice cubes. Well, I look at it differently. Theater history. mean, Buster Keaton, 200 years from now. I bet it'll be the subject for an impossible doctoral dissertation. There's a lot of difference between Buster Keaton and Minsky's theater. But not between Buster Keaton and Gypsy Rose Lee. There's a lot of difference. Well, there is a lot of difference, but they're both theater histories. Now, how did you break into the follies to make transition from Minsky's to Ziegfeld's? I was in three other shows before of the Ziegfeld follies. You see, I was in Ziegfeld's Hot Show. That's when Ziegfeld was

alive. And when that show closed, I went back to Berlesque. And when I had a chance to do another show, it was George White's Melody with Hal Skelly, Edwin Herbert. It was an operetta. And when that show closed, I went back to Berlesque again. And my third show was for Billy Rose at the Casano Dupari. was a big, great, big, gaudy nightclub he had. And I was in Mr. Cicero Monies. That's good. And that show didn't close. I was fired. That's so good. No, well, it was my own fault. Maybe you didn't care. Oh, I certainly did care. I certainly did. But he wanted someone to read the announcements very precisely. And now, Gomez and Winona and exit. And I've been playing comedy since I was a little bit of a girl. And to do this without trying to get a laugh is more than I could

bear. So usually on the exit, after I'd say it, walking offstage as sedately as possible, I'd let the shoulder strap drop. Wonderful. And then a great apology pick it up. Terribly sorry, an exit. And Billy used to catch this and grab me in the wings and said, I want you to be a white zombie. Nothing but that. That's it. And the next night, well, I tried being a white zombie, the next night, just before I went on, I was to announce Gomez and Winona, the dance team. And he said, he's whispered at me in the wings. he said, I don't go out there and say, Gunona and Winona. So of course I did. You did? Well, yes, he was really asking me to, unconsciously. I think he was asking for an escape I think he for trouble. Sure. So I went back to Burlesque. And my third time, a fourth time, while I was out of Burlesque, was the one that took it. Sometimes like being vaccinated three times, and none of them were. Each time you get

the disease. But when I went out of Burlesque for the fourth time, I stayed out. That was the Zipfell Bollies with Fanny Brice and Bobby Clark. And you were Fanny Brice's roommate? I'd take it for a while. Well, was the mix. when the show first opened on Broadway, I had wonderful reviews. I became, well, they gave me featured billing in the play the third week. Sounds good. Now, my memory is not the best in the world, but I do remember seeing you on a show with Bobby Clark. was that... Oh, I did a solo show with him. Star and Garret. Star and Garret was from Mike Todd. Mike Todd, sure. Yes. And I was also with Bobby Clark originally at the World's Fair in the streets of Paris. Then later at it in Castello took his place. Well, I should say they took his place because they came in as a team. And I also worked with Bobby in Chicago. What was that? That was from Mike Todd, the casino at the

streets of Paris. I see. You do straight plays, dramatic roles? I have, yes. This is at that time or later? Well, yes, I had. I had played the role Burlesque that Ruby Keeler did originally. And Bobby... Oh, understand you said. Sure. Yes, that would be a good part for you. Sure. And I played that once with Paul Stewart. It was just wonderful in the role. And I played other, you know... I think the first time I saw you was in a picture. Again, my memory, and I think it was called Mademoiselle from Arm and Tears. It ended with you walking down in a parade. No, that was Battle of Broadway with Brian Dunleavy and Victor McLaughlin, and that was a song in it. I see. She's the daughter of Mademoiselle. That's it. I'm the daughter of Mademoiselle. Mademoiselle, you heard it for so well, that hinky -dinky beautiful bell from Arm and Tears. My memory was magnificent. You did a whole lot of Hollywood pictures, and I take it this was at first for Daryl Zanay. The two years. And

your Hollywood name was Louise Hovig. Hovig. Now, what on earth, why on earth did you throw away a name like Gypsy Roseleigh? didn't throw it away, Mr. Zanay thought that there was too much stigma attached to the name Gypsy Roseleigh. Well, Mr. Zanay also thought Marilyn Monroe couldn't be a star, who also... I strapped his to break, by the way, too. But he also made his 40 million dollars and put it apart here. I'm talking down to him and he makes good pictures. Yes, indeed. Okay. So, you know, we could be wrong about a couple of women. Actually, I think, you know, when Betty Grable was at the studio, she made more money for 20th Century Fox than any other star they had. Alice Faye was his big moneymaker before Betty Grable joined the studio. And he often said that it was because of Betty Grable and Alice Faye that he could make pictures like Wilson. And the Oxbow incident, which

he didn't like at first, but now he does, yes. Well, the pictures that didn't make money. That's right. You see, and... You need millions of dollars to make pictures. I'm not unsympathetic or being snotty. I understand, sure. So, you know, somebody has to make the money for the studio. Today, things are quite different than they were in those days. I know that one year, I think it was 1938 or 39, 20th Century showed an $11 million profit on the year. Well, an $11 million profit on a studio today for the year is not enough to even make one movie with. Not like Cleopatra's, no. Or the Longest Day. Any of these great, big, expensive pictures. You know, only Daryl Zanne could make the longest today, I think, and it was a brain film. I mean, there's certainly very Hollywood... I like Hollywood. And one of the few, I think, American critics who does, because there are certain films made in Hollywood that can only be made there all by Hollywood talent. Well, just as there are certain films that can only be made in England. And

although I just recently saw a picture called Brother Wrath. I saw a screening of it at a friend's house. And... Wayne Mars, way back. Brian, um... um... Oh, you threw me off. Anyway, the point of the film, the point that I was trying to make, that I... Forbes, they were a great many, great many British actors in this film. And I had... And with Brian being there, I had this absolute feeling the film had been made in England. It looked like an English film. It sounded like one. And the film was made in the San Fernando Valley. Incidentally, it's magnificent. Oh, boy. Well, the lead was made in England. mean, it's possible, but it's harder. Well, it's... There's some films they used to have, I think, a real Hollywood stamp. I don't think that's true today. I see. Don't you believe that these... Holiday... Like Lawrence of Arabia was made in Jordan, but by Hollywood, by remote control, only the United States could make this a film. And I'm glad. think it's a marvelous picture. It's a matter of technique,

ingenuity, know -how, and being willing to spend 20 or 30 or 40 million dollars, too. Yeah, that's something I have to do it with, of course. Sure. Well, if you remember the old days, the 38... 37, the great big lavish musicals were the big thing at MGM, 20, and all the studios made these great tremendous musicals. Now, we see those on television today, and they don't hold up as well, to my way of thinking, as many of the much smaller, less expensive films. I see. You play, of course, the things like Sally Irene and Mary, Battle of Broadway, My Lucky Star. You can't have everything. My Lucky Star was with Sonia Hennie. That's right. can't have everything. It was the first film I made. That was with Alice Faye and Tony Martin, Gregory Rattoff. Good. That is good. And Sally Irene and Mary, who were they? That was... Joan Davis was in that, and Alice Faye. And you played which one? You see, I was before Betty Gravel. Mm -hmm. Because these were the... I was in the Alice Faye pictures. Fred Allen was in

that film. You can't have everything. Now, you made a film in Spain. You mentioned in your book... Oh, that's... I saw the trailer for it. It's Technicolor you were taking in Bath. What was that? It wasn't Technicolor. It was some sort of East European color. European color? It's a I can't think of the name of it now, but it was not Technicolor. I see. It was a color film, but it was done with their own color. What was the story? It was called Babes of Baghdad. It was supposed to be a satire on harem pictures. And it might very well have worked, but most satires need a frame. Mm -hmm. They need something to point to it and say, we're only kidding. Mm And this picture somehow didn't have the frame because most harem pictures are sort of rather ridiculous anyway. He's trying to go far, please come home. Yes. Yes. And Alice, you see, I don't think it had the proper frame. Even if it had been anything as ridiculous as a dream or something. I see. really needed a more obvious, it really needed a finger to point right at it and say, we're kidding. John

Bowles was in it. Wonderful trooper in it. Nips and man. Backstreet. remember the backstreet. Oh, what a lovely family man. singer. adored him. Good singer. And Paula Goddard, who, of course, became one of my favorite movie stars just with working with her and has remained a good friend. I met her in Switzerland last July. She was there with... was a wonderful woman. Beautiful. Beautiful figure. Gay, cheerful. She walks about 50 blocks a day, you know. She loves to walk. A lot of hills in too. lot of... A very smart woman, too. With great chic. Yes. Yes. And still, this real sort of wave -like quality. Oh, I admire it. I'm a fan, too. Now, you were the author of the G -String Murder, which was a film called Lady of Burlesque with Barbara Stanwood. I wrote the book. I didn't write the film. You wrote... And it seemed to me you've written other books and... Yes, I wrote Mother Finds a Body. That's another mystery. Yes. Was that biographical in any way? No. No, they were. It's not a great many copies. I haven't read

it in some time. And then Gypsy, which is a... You call it a men's part. play between and a great many short stories between those. You did. No, the naked genius based upon your... Is that character or the one that Joan Blondel played in it? Yes. Was that Mike Todd? Mike Todd produced it. And that was sort of... What would you say? satire about you, an invitation of you or what? Well, I don't really know exactly what to say about the naked genius. It was a financial success, an artistic failure. But Russell, who did that? George S. Kaufman directed it. I see. And who did the book? Kraus, I've forgotten that. I did. You wrote the naked genius? I didn't know that. Then you're saying it was a failure of some sort? It was an artistic failure. We made a lot of money. I see. When I was thrown, it occurred to you to play the part in the naked genius. Oh, no, no, no. I didn't write it for myself. You did not? No, no, of course not. It was written for more of an ingenue type. I see. Joan was wonderful in it, as a matter of fact. Splendid actress. It wasn't good enough for her. She was a good actress.

Yes. And she was splendid then. This was her first time going back on Broadway. She was still married to Dick Powell in those days. And she was a little nervous about going back on the stage after so many years in films. And I just wish that I had been capable of giving her a better play. I think you're being modest. Oh, no. Not at all. Now, since we're casting, how come you didn't occur to somebody who had the money for you to play your own mother in Gypsy? Monty Pecan told me recently she's going be playing a grandmother in a memoir about her childhood. Well, Monty Pecan can sing, but this was a musical. And this woman had to be able to sing. Oh, I thought of that, too. But Richard Burton doesn't really sing. Oh. And Rex Harrison doesn't really sing. don't mind. I think this is charming of you at this late time of the day to compare me, even remotely with Richard Burton or Rex Harrison. You see, when you have the monumental talent that those men have, you don't have to be able to sing. I see. Okay. That's your answer. Now, you were in

Monterey at the same time Gypsy was in San Francisco. You gave a show in Monterey. I was doing a curious evening there, little bits and pieces, little clips of film that I've collected. I narrate the film. Is it a lecture that goes with it? Sort of. Yes. Stein, your critic, Stanley... Michael Baum. Oh, delightful man. Came to see me and gave me a terribly good review in the San Francisco paper. That is when they offered me a job here in San Francisco with Curious Evening. They said, we want to book you in right after under the Yum Yum Tree closes. That was four years ago. Well, I look forward to it. Yum Yum Tree is still playing and here I am with another job. I've moved away from New York now, I've moved to California. So many changes in my life since... Life isn't predictable. I remember reading an article about you in life. You were living in New York then. In a mansion. This was, were you doing Las Vegas acts? Oh, it wasn't really a mansion. It was 27 rooms, but it

wasn't exact. Somehow you think of a mansion as sort of a great big brownstone front house. This was two houses, a house in the front and a patio and a house in the back. Yeah, Gracie Mansion? No, no, no, no. was on E 63rd Street between Third and Lexington. So good. Very good. better. Better. Better. Yes, yes, it is. Yes, it is. And you gave that up to come to California? Yes, I sold that house. I have one, I think it's even more beautiful now in Beverly Hills. They, both houses have great individuality. They're not like anybody else's house in the world. And in each house, when people have come to visit me, when Elsa Scapparelli visited me, for instance, he said, it's like Italy. When Marcel Beritez came to visit me, he said it's like France. They found a little of their own favorite country in It's like a Russian artist. Yes, very similar. Now I'm finding that. Same thing is happening with my California house. Your son lives with you? My son is in the Army. He's in Munich. I see. another two years. I see. But

what doing? Is he a GI? Oh yes, he's in the Army. I see. Army intelligence. It's really intelligence because the last letter I had from him, he thanked me for the 11th sweater I had knit for him. And he said, Mother dear, thank you for the lovely S -W -A -T -T -E -R. None of us are very good spellers in my family. But good writers. Well, June Havoc is a very good writer. I think she did in our theater and heritage was brilliant. I'm so glad you like that. She's going to be up here in a couple of weeks. You're not far on your show? This is the new show, the Gypsy Rose Lee show? She'll be on my show yet. Yes, that's good. I don't think of it as a new show now. It's been out for 13 A couple months, yes. Yes, I think of it as an old show. I see. In that old show. Fifty -eight. So far. And that we do five a week, you know, it means that we've done 60 shows. And 60 shows, actually, you know, when you do one a week would be 60 weeks, so it would be more than a year. I see. My sister's been doing a show in New York

on Sundays, on W -O -R, a local show, and just one a week. I see. for the entire year, she did fewer shows than I have done here in 12 weeks. She do plays now. remember her and Donnie and his daughter, Louisiana Hayride. No, she, and you said, the show that I watched last week here, you said she had done, she had played to Tanya in Connecticut. Yes. nice dream. She would be beautiful. Yes, beautiful. She was going to go out on tour with Eva Lagallian in Skin of Our Teeth. She went all over the world and South America two separate trips. One was a world trip, and the other was a South American trip. She would play Subraina. Yes, she played. And she could, she was going to play the Tallulah Bank. Yes. She would get natural. She play it. She was wonderful in it. So when Eva Lagallian is contemplating her farewell tour, I see. 70 years old, and wonderful courage to start out on the road today. Yes. you know, many younger people find it pretty tough to take. Since the old days, have you two, have June Havoc and Gypsy Rosalie played

together? No, but I had to finish what I was saying. I'm sorry. My sister was going to go out with Skin of Our Teeth, and I'm going to leave your listeners with the impression that perhaps she would. But it seems that Thornton Wilder has decided not to let Skin of Our Teeth tour. So my sister will probably not be playing San Francisco, but she's coming out to do my show anyway. Now, one more question, if I may. No, we have not appeared together. I did a show for her in New York on her television show, and she came out to Cleveland to do the Mike Douglas show with me one time, and she is going to come here to San Francisco and do this show with me. But these are the few appearances. You could play old acquaintance together, for instance. They, um, the Maskers in Los Angeles, which is an actor's organization, very lovely organization, gave me a testimonial dinner last year, and June came to sit on the dais and say a few kind words, and we harmonized, we

didn't, we were kids, and I'd forgotten how awful I was. You didn't sing Let Me Entertain You. No, but we tried to sing Smile, smile, smile, the fire you kiss me, sad I do. And I keep going into the tenor, which my sister was supposed to have, and I can't even sing the lead level to sing tenor. was terrible. Sounds nostalgic. I'm touching. Nostalgic means lousy. That's what it was. I see. That was Burlesque, really dead, you know. No, no, no, no. It evidently is not. There are several theaters. There's a theater right here in San Francisco that has Burlesque. There was a President Follies, but they gave their stuff to San Quentin. The President Follies is no more. There's new one. There is. Evidently. am square. Well, evidently a new Burlesque theater, because I had Blaze Star on my show, and I've had Irma, the body. Saw her today, she's here. On show. Yes. And I'm quite certain it's a theater, not a nightclub. Yes, I say. It's dormant. comes just like

there's several art forms that recede, and they come back, and they never really... themselves. Pardon me? Like they seed themselves That's right, that's right. Yes, yes. Harding perennials. Good. You asked me a question I've been brooding about when I spoke to you last week. You asked me about Pola Negra, and I couldn't imagine. Now, what about nowadays? You do these five shows a week, and that consumes all of your artistic time? Well, I shouldn't say yes, because I'm always interested in doing other things, and I might be doing something else with some film. I'll always like to be playing around with film. And LA is a good place for you to be then. Yes, I'm going to do a movie picture, a real movie, for Columbia. It's the Roslyn Russell film called Mother Superior. You two have come together? going to be a nun. No, I'm going to be the dancing instructor. Good. Yes, I'm tickled at that. It's a cameo. You know, these cameos used to be called bit parts, but now they're called cameos. Well, you were in the stripper too. I was a cameo again.

That's right. I'm nothing with cameos. Well, Roslyn Russell could play your mother. You can play her dancing instructor. I don't see why not. Oh, I'm quite sure that I'll be able to do it. Yes, I adore them. Are you able to say whether you've preferred one version of Gypsy to the others or the Ethel Merman to the Ronald Ethel? I couldn't say this. Well, do you have a third version in your mind? such completely different mediums. It was difficult for me originally to think of Ethel Merman as mother. Mother was quite different from Ethel. As a matter of, you said lady of light. My mother, opening night, my sister, and I went backstage to congratulate Ethel. And June said, you were magnificent, Ethel. Just magnificent. You weren't mother, but you were magnificent. And Ethel said, well, after all, kid, I never saw your mother. Yes. She created a magnificent character. Now, it's, I think, about 4 .30 in afternoon, Gypsy Rosely has not had lunch, and I feel like some degree. is early yesterday afternoon, but that doesn't really matter because you

reach a certain spiritual plane when you go without booze. Tell me how to get there. You talk about dieting in your book. Oh, that's a child. I dieted. It doesn't look necessary anymore. Oh, I do. I've been on the drinking man's diet, and I don't drink. So So does my brother -in -law. And he's giving it to me, and he says that it worked. He's lost eight pounds. Yes. I know some people who never did drink and have gone on the diet and aren't exactly what you call alcoholics, but they do drink three martinis for lunch. The diet lets you have them, you see. I see. Well... Well, they say that it soothes you and it gives a sort of euphoria. It makes you forget the fact that you mustn't eat certain foods that you might like. This is the drink of a diet. The drink. Oh, not the diet. Like any diet. You get awfully tired of what you're allowed to eat, and you long desperately for what you're not supposed to have. Yes. Well, I believe in drink. I don't have to read a book for that. Well, this diet will let you drink. Good. Well, think it's a properly optimistic

and upbeat way to wind up. I've had the considerable honor and pleasure of speaking to Ms. Tipsy Rosely in San Francisco. Well, it was nice talking to you.