American Experience; Jubilee Singers: Sacrifice and Glory; Interview with Toni Anderson, Music Historian

it's b okay so talk a little bit about this other question about what the stakes are very interesting certainly for the american missionary association one thing that had to be prevalent in their mind was whether or not it was a good idea even to send out the jubilee singers as representatives the organization to us right here it is important to be right a surly for the ama one thing that they had to consider was whether not sending out a group of students for fisk to represent that an organization

was a good idea and the students were fresh to two education they weren't necessarily polished performers in fact a silly were polished performers they were students of various ages and various backgrounds in various education attainment education levels and so the ama had to consider whether or not sending out a group of students who is going to represent them and represent their cause and stan is living testimonials of what they do what their whole purpose for being was it was about with enough it was a good idea do you think that there was some concern about what you asking me for my opinion and i know it's true i bear does for all the world just snippets with

its was thinking about this they may also have to be concerned are at least have to consider what it meant for them to to put on display so to speak students are african americans black students who are going to stand up and represent their cause while there were many african americans are associated with him a surly they were in the minority in a predominately white organization that was doing missionary work to a race of people and now they were going to they were faced with a decision of whether or not they would support george white in this harebrained scheme of his to take students out and stand the map in front of audience after audience and put them on display to raise money for their cause initially the ama would not

support the idea so wide appeal to fiscal to general fisker was the namesake of the school asking if you would support the idea and he cautiously replied that he would check with the ama so he did not support the group either n kravitz was white's own brother in law so even in in terms of family appeal he could not get the support that he desired from the ama so when do you find the source of this has been a similar thing or another thing well i'm sober parents of the students also had to consider whether or not they were going to let their kids go some of the parents were concerned about letting their students travel out into the big wide world away from an environment that was completely out of their control and care and just like any parent they were concerned about their their children and many of these of the early singers were children

fifteen sixteen seventeen years old he's become so desperate right when white decided i'm sober when white came up with the idea of forming a choir he initially asked for fines to just bring the students and drill them during the summer and then start the campaign in the fall he could even get support for that so he on his own initiative funded the students are staying in the saw mr in order to to drill them rehearse them or prepare this choir just in hopes of the ama would come through and give their support artist rolled around september rolled around and he still could not get any support from fiscal from the ama the teachers have

come to support the idea in part because things were so desperate fisk that there was little other hope of survival rather than other than i'm investing in this particular mission so by the time our time rolls around and white i'm sorry i get sidetracked was a real as it rolls around what defines a ball around on a roll around animals are thinking say i have to quit thinking about me that's just very disturbing about how salmon i sounded ok hey thank you it's about a month of october and eighteen seventy one white knew that it was sink or swim time he was either going to go for the school the

very possibly fold so he decided even though he had like the endorsement of ama that he would venture out at this point all of the teachers came to his cause helping to provide some clothing for the students they were poorly clad they had didn't have the kind of of clothing that they knew for a cold winter up north some of the females singers had only cloth slippers they had borrowed codes from some of the teachers and off they went and ella shepherds words looking like a ragtag troop wearing coats in many colors like joseph so off they go to sing because remember any of them

now you do you answer the question and even on this side yeah yeah i guess so tell me a little bit about some century ago that's owen well the first one with m a y and then when you talk about a discussion about just what it is taking on yet write one of her give me just a sense of what that what's the advancement of the right hand just amazing sense of what his version when george while leftist singers october sixth

eighteen seventy one he probably did realize how they've a task he had just undertaken not only had he prepared students musically with the help of alan shepard who was an invaluable assistant to him but he also had to do all the other work to make the enterprise work to make this campaign six classics as so many times he would have to leave our shepherd with the students with the rest of the singers to get ready for the next concert while he went ahead to the next city where he would have to secure hall talk with all of the ministers in the area to try to drum up support build an audience advertise all of those and all that kind of advance work fell into his lap plus finding the transportation fined the lodging which was in itself quite an ordeal many times he would have to leave the students at the station because they know hotel that would take them in and go up and down the streets knocking on doors to try to find christian people

who would house a singer's overnight was an incredible job that later once the ama finally lend their support would take five men to do the work that he had done along the pacific ocean elisha is perhaps in my opinion the most important member of the troupe she came to fisk university when she was quite young with all of her belongings in such a small box that the students' job tearing called her pad box and so she came to school to get an education she had taught some piano lessons she had taken some piano lessons and some voice lessons so she had some musical training and she was one of the first members joined in was part of george white's choir within just a very short time george white's saw how capable she really was and began to rely upon her to help drill the singers or rehearse she was the accompanist for the group she's the only member of the fisk jubilee singers that participated

from the day one until the day that the camp the final of the final campaign one reason that she was so important to the success of the group was because i'm during the time when we start again one reason that our shepherd was so important to the success of the jubilee singers essay the naming one reason alan shepard was so important to the success of this singing ensemble was because much of the rehearsal and the arrangement of the parts and the drilling of the singers all about responsibility was left to her that's because george what was always going ahead to do the other advance work and also because during this time their programming changed whereas the group started off initially singing on the standard repertoire done my other choirs of the time when they

started singing spirituals and saul what a great reception they had they include more spirit was in the programming so during this the early months of the jubilee singers existence before they were ever known as the jubilee singers they went through an evolution in their programming initially they would have maybe seventy members that were quote white man's music and they would include some spirituals often is on course but when they saw how those spirit was received they began to include more more spiritual sense of the whole thing evolved and turned over to eventually spirituals were the featured item of the program we have to realize is during this revolution occurred while they are in on route as a concert performing ensemble me say that again this evolution occurred during the time that they are actually singing so it wasn't as though they arranged all of these things and they left on tour they arrange them while they were on tour and

that responsibility fell to alan shepard so here's alan shepard drilling the singer's arranging new melodies teachings him practicing the spirituals all during the time that their concert icing night after night after night it's incredible mr michaelis i think shephard was a saint she had to have been to put it with george white george why was very demanding exacting opinionated tenacious stubborn he had all of those qualities that make for good choir director and ella sheppard was his assistant and she was able to translate all of his wishes and desires into

reality musically n n work with him and was very supportive of him and loyal to him she was a quiet woman within a very i'm sure i'm quiet demeanor she was not demonstrative she was not bold yet at the same time she was incredible and what she was able to accomplish she was a strong black woman's side of it they say ghana says the late twenties old soul that is

well personal writing characters in our shepherd was an incredible woman not only in her personality but in her musicality and she was obviously musically capable because she handled so much of the responsibility of arranging all of the spirituals during this time of evolution in the concert programming but she was also incredible and that she was able to handle george white who was very gruff and blunt and opinionated and stubborn and yielding and in the midst of all of this not only was she able to translate his ideas into reality in terms of music but she was also able to just deal with him i'm in a very loyal way and what's amazing about it is that she was probably twenty to maybe twenty three years old when she says when she left with the singers in

fact many people when they would see the group would notice many tapes was one of the younger singers around fifteen and they thought our shepherd might be her mother and she wasn't of course but there was that age disparity but there was also that presents about a shepherd she was a very poised and dignified strong black woman i don't know i had to go back and think about them the male members of the original group are very interesting characters especially thomas rattling and isaac dickerson i say they're interesting because they were had already made a name

for themselves at the school thomas rattling was well known to the general fisk because he had traveled with him general fists company and they knew him as rollicking time so i think that tells a little bit about his personality to begin with but they made a name for themselves at risk for breaking the rules rattling and dickerson both got in big trouble with george why he almost expelled from the school for improper behavior towards the female members at the institution is strictly against the rules to write letters to the females or to visit them and rattling and dickerson did both so only by letters of apology backed have to i george why did he allow them to stay and george weigel very well allow them to say because as it's good voices and he always kept his good voices and made sure that they each state at the institutions of the year to require you to he waved their tuition of a talk when

some of his members that he wanted specifically to be his choir had been teaching out in the summer and in the county didn't pay there they're on salary so when they connect to school they did not have intuition mini george white wave their tuition in order to maintain his choir so always george why was lenient at least somewhat forgiving of a bad behavior or improper behavior and to wish in debt and hard to keep his choir dickerson and rubbing both for are described as mischievous fun loving i think they were high spirited kinds of kinds of guys they certainly kept the group lively and awe yet he's at

the handsome guys you look dapper mean dc dapper dress as you said that the average dressers i can use that phrase amaro that plays out as i done it on a map rattling end and dickerson were also quite hansen follows they were dapper dressers and they were known throughout the two hours to be referred to a chef's with all of the other local people they left behind their other european travels many women in tears as the coach pulled out of town when i was engaged and you know mr robinson writes that he's engaged to millionaires dickerson the cotton and success that the

racism right why is for the good early on in the campaign would those are difficult days for the singers they would saying they would go to a concert they would sing their hearts out and they would receive these glowing reviews from all the critics in the audience would respond and they were they seemed well loved and they would get some money but it was only enough to cover expenses may be sometimes it would be enough money to advance into the next venue often george why would have to go back on stage and sort of bag for money just to pay their train bill there'd their transportation to get them to the next spot so these are difficult days for them because while they could see that there was potential in the group and while george like a sieve the audience loved them a worsening any money home to fisk and when they left this guy george why had taken all of the

money out of the treasury except for one dollar so they did not least desk and and very good straits they needed to send home some money but instead they were getting big concert reviews good audience response but no money so during this time basically what happened is they would go from spot to spot to spot barely making the ends meet and even that was difficult for the group they would get a glowing reviews in newspapers than they would have to leave the concert hall and hunt for a place to stay hotels would necessarily take the men would let them stay because of their color and so there was this incredible irony that they could be so well loved and yet so despised when it came to housing and lodging and food and just the daily necessities of life and most of it incredibly

difficult for the singers to feel such love emanating from an audience and such acceptance and they leave the concert hall and have no place to stay no place to go to sleep where we were just as a person they have their successes of what they have it and they don't have any bad out concerts i mean they don't have they they're always quite successful but if you try him out financially that doesn't happen until the beach or woodstock us in december was let's talk about this talk about when they get their name and they won't go into that we can given the names i can use it after one concert lately stop was in ohio near cincinnati but that was before the lessons many as a

half hour to say ohio loses ohio at one of their concerts in ohio they were really discouraged at this point again they have made enough money to two finance a concert to cover their expenses but nothing to send home to fisk the steelers are very discouraged at night and they had an audience a well administer from the nashville area reverend bennett was in the audience at night and he met with the students afterwards they decided to pray about the situation to see whether or not they should go home and call it quits and after they prayed with reverend that they felt a bit better george why retired he decided that he was going to stay up on it and pray about the future for the company the next morning he met the students after breakfast with this what alan shepard described as a glowing face and announced to them all that he had been given a name for the company they were to be called the jubilee singers the name was taken from are

chapters twenty five of leviticus from the bible after the the jewish year of jubilee the jewish year of jubilee occurred every fifty eighth year and in the year of jubilee were provisions for debt relief provisions for redemption of property every emancipation of slavery and so george white felt that this was a fitting name for the group for what they represented and for the grander and me and the sacredness of the name the soonest loved it and they they gather together and decided that yes they should go on so they endured they kept going on their goal was to reach new york city they had traveled north for ohio or some of the churches that were the hotbeds of the abolitionist movement and they were on their way to new york city one thing that was important in their journeys was when they were at the congregation of council of churches in ohio several ama ministers of

people associate with the ama had heard them and send back letters and i think the letters going back to the ama headquarters helped innocence pave the way fb