Iowa Press; 1431; Presidential Hopeful - Gov. Michael Dukakis

But I would press show 14:31 with Michael Dukakis. A. Major funding for this program was provided by friends of Iowa Public Television. He may not be a well-known presidential candidate in the Midwest but he is doing well in presidential polls taken in the New England area. He's Massachusetts Governor Michael Dukakis. Said a son of Greek immigrants named. Mike Dukakis announces his candidacy for the presidency of the United. Tonight and I will press a talk with that son of immigrants Michael Dukakis. This is the Sunday May 17th edition of Iowa press.

Here is Dean board. Good evening. The race for president has many dark horse entrants and one of them is Democrat Michael the caucus the governor of Massachusetts although well-known and well-liked in the New England area his first exposure to Midwest voters was more than likely in a cameo appearance on the television program St. Elsewhere. The governor played himself and the Saint Elsewhere medical staff who helped him didn't recognize him. Well fiction may mirror reality at least in Iowa but as Nancy Crowfoot reports the caucus is working hard to make a name for himself in this state. Since January. Michael Dukakis has visited Iowa seven times. His supporters took out full page advertisements in The Des Moines Register to tout his qualities and he has visited Iowa farms to abate criticism that the Easterner doesn't have a concern for Midwestern agriculture. I learned what I what I already know in some ways and that is the reason that life has been very tough for farmers and for these. But I also know from my own

experience annoying one that you're killing certain things around. His home state of Massachusetts has seen an economic turnaround over the last several years. A turnaround for which Dukakis often takes credit. But one that his critics argue was generated by the former governor. Dukakis was first elected governor of Massachusetts in 1994 he lost his bid for re-election in 1988 due in part critics say to his aloofness from the state legislature four years later he again ran for governor and won. He boasts a successful record on economic policy since taking office in 1902. Unemployment in Massachusetts has dropped to 3.9 percent. Personal income has soared to 20 percent above the national average and the welfare rolls were cut by four point four percent due in part to a state plan that provided employment and training program that helped some

31000 welfare recipients get jobs. The 53 year old a caucus has been described as energetic innovative and highly effective qualities expected in most counties. But with so many candidates in the race for president how could a caucus distinguish himself from the pack. Well we'll talk about that and other issues tonight with our guests. Massachusetts Governor Michael Dukakis will be questioned by David Epstein a political reporter with The Des Moines Register. And by Jon McConnell the economist with the Burlington Hawkeye and other Harris newspapers. Governor what guys distinguish you from the pack. Well I'd say two things John one I'm a person that has made a real difference in the lives of real people. And whether it's hundreds of thousands of jobs at good wages for the workers of my state or helping over 30000 people move from welfare to work thanks to a very strong and very effective employment training program for people on public assistance or helping older citizens to get decent health care at reasonable cost those are things which I have been deeply involved in and which I believe have really helped people to improve their lives and improve the quality of the lives of

themselves and their families Secondly I'm a sitting governor I'm a chief executive. I'm somebody who is a hands on manager and leader and I'm now in my ninth year as the governor of a strong and important state and one of the things that that does is give you the experience of picking a cabinet of being tested every day and every week every month. Of making sure that the people who work for you understand that respecting the law and the Constitution and believing in practicing integrity in what they do are important and those are things which I think I bring to this race and I hope bring in a way that can win the support of the people of Iowa. GOVERNOR OF WHAT. What do you what do you say to critics who say that you're not responsible for the success in Massachusetts in that you're taking credit for something other people did specifically that the growth there is due to high military spending in the presence of a first rate educational institutions like Harvard MIT Uncle Sam don't indict with the kind of money that is poured into your state for military spending in the economy here would would grow to how do you respond to that criticism there's no question

we do some defense work that although it's only about seven percent of our economy and I would not want us to repeat the mistakes of the 60s when we got so dependent on the defense budget that when people started cutting the Pentagon budget we had some very serious problems in my state. But. The turnaround of the comeback of Massachusetts is something that began way back in 1975 and 76 in my first administration. Long before the build up of the fence it's the result of a very strong aggressive economic development program in which everybody participated. The governor certainly has but the legislature's been a part of it. We build a very strong coalition of business and labor and educational institutions. Yes our one hundred twenty colleges and universities are a very important part of our economic success. That's one of the great assets I will have because you've got a first rate school system and some terrific universities and community colleges. But we have invested in that educational system in our schools in our colleges and universities. We've increased budgets for public higher education in Massachusetts by a greater percentage over the past 10 years and any other state in the country. We've

invested in centers of excellence in new technology. And those are investments in our economic future which have had a lot to do with creating the kind of economic success we currently enjoy. Governor there's another criticism that much of you're putting people getting people off welfare and putting the work criticism of that which also applies to the Reagan recovery generally that people are being put to work in jobs that really leave them somewhere below the poverty level and I understand that one state court in Massachusetts has has criticized you for that. It ministration for not supporting these people so efficiently that wealth. Well we've increased welfare benefits Thirty two percent in the past four years John which has to be far more than any other statement country but the jobs we are placing the graduates of our program as we call our employment training program for people on welfare are good jobs and good wages. The average starting wage for a graduate of that program somebody coming off of welfare is six dollars and

sixty cents an hour. That's about $13000 a year and that's a pretty good starting wage and way over the minimum wage incidentally. We work very hard to find those jobs and find good employers for those graduates because we know that a welfare mother coming off of welfare has got to have a decent job a decent wage to be able to order kids and that's something we worked very hard at but how can you crow about that program governor when when you've got such a booming economy and it is relatively easy to get people off welfare when you've got. One of the lowest unemployment rates you have to bust a clerks in at this or well time to work in stores. It's certainly easier Dave but let me say that even with a low unemployment rate we have people on public assistance in this country who for a variety of reasons have had very little work experience oftentimes don't have a high school school diploma may be functionally illiterate. And even with a booming economy it takes a very special effort to help people on public assistance to find good jobs and to build a future for themselves and their

children. And incidentally although which it is true that we have a very low unemployment rate today we started the program when our unemployment rate was seven and a half percent so we didn't wait around until we had achieved a three and a half or three point eight percent unemployment rate before we began working and we had real success even back then at helping people on welfare to find good jobs and to get off welfare and stay off welfare. David catch Donna defense contracting and Alice States another problem the problem of a state governor who can show that with what's beneficial to his state moving into the larger elite only now has to look at national problems you could peg to. Cut to defense but you become place. I'm for a strong defense. I'm not sure that spending billions on exotic weapons systems that may not work is the way to get a strong defense and in fact I think our conventional capability has been weakening and growing stronger over the course of the past five or six or seven years. Now as somebody who believes in a strong defense I want my state to be a part of that of the

participate in that. But I do I don't see any excuse for wasting the public's money at a time when we're running deficits of 150 to 200 billion dollars on weapons systems that don't work we had a report three weeks ago from a distinguished group of physicists and scientists and weapons experts which said that Star Wars won't work so what are we spending billions of dollars on Star Wars for let's let's start making some hard spending choices and get that deficit down and start putting our resources in the hands we were spending about a billion dollars a day. Three hundred billion dollars if you can that be cut and that overall expenditure would be cut I'm not sure I can tell you exactly John until I walk into the White House and take a good hard look at that budget. I certainly have a very strong sense that we are spending an awful lot of money. Rep and systems of questionable value that we are putting our defense dollars where they ought to be going and we have certain important priorities in this country. On the domestic side which are being met whether it's good schools or a quality environment or decent affordable housing these are the kinds of things that make their own contribution to national

defense and national security and that's something I take it one step further and to enlarge on that bit by conventional forces you mean putting more men and women in uniform and tanks and rifles rather than sophisticated weapons. Well we certainly have to have supplies of ammunition that last more than two or three weeks. We ought to have tanks that work. We've got to have certain basic conventional capability which many people who study defense think we don't have these days as we've been spending billions and billions on very exotic and highly questionable weapons and it's not the nuclear weapons. Well my hope is that we will take advantage of what may be the best opportunity for meaningful arms control nuclear arms especially that we've had in our lifetimes and I hope very much the president will negotiate an agreement around medium and short range missiles in Europe if he does that I'll be the first to apply them and not only that but it means that the next president will be able to go beyond that and I hope begin to negotiate a serious cuts in strategic weapons conceivably

begin to bring down the level of conventional forces I think we have an opportunity here which is. One of the best we've ever had and that's something that I am strongly committed to. Governor the purpose of the caucuses is to begin the nominating process for a candidate. And I like the president the pickaninny Democrats and I were looking for a candidate. Why are you the the most winning Democrat in the race if if if if I were a caucus going Democrat who wanted to go with a winner why would Mike Dukakis be the candidate I should stand up for. Because the most important issue for Americans in 1988 and especially for violence will be the economic future of this country and whether or not we're going to build a strong and growing and vibrant economy that creates good jobs and good wages for the people of this country I believe I have a record and and policies and an understanding of what it takes to build a strong national economy which this country needs and that's why I hope the people of Iowa will support me. But can you win I mean how can a Massachusetts politician run well in the South for

example. Well there was another massive Massachusetts politician named John Kennedy that ran exceedingly well in the south in 1960 in fact Jack Kennedy got 100 percent of the vote in Georgia than he did in Massachusetts. I've been in the south a number of times and I'll be back there many many times in the course of this campaign. I don't have a sense Dave that the issues that concern the people of the South are different from the issues that concern the people of the will of the people of Iowa the people of the West the people of this country want a future that is strong and vibrant that creates good jobs and good wages they want a foreign policy that reflects American values and we certainly don't have that kind of a foreign policy these days and I find that whether I'm in Jackson Mississippi or Sioux City or any other part of this country that that those are the issues that people are concerned about. Those are the issues that I care about. Kennedy squeaked that many people feel that he could lead to Johnson on the ticket with him. Are you thinking about a saturday of any make.

While I'm too far away from that moment to be thinking about a running mate except in general terms of though I certainly think that in picking a running mate. There are at least two things you're looking for one somebody who can be a first rate president if God forbid something happens to the president Secondly somebody who will strengthen and compliment not just the ticket but the kind of administration that you want to put together if if you are president. That might be somebody from the south on the other hand it might be somebody from the Midwestern or the far west to go back to your response to David's question on what you would do for the country you're talking about putting people to work again are you talking about raising the standard of living. And I stand to living now is so far most of the rest of the world particularly the third world that dad. How can we continue to raise our standard of living. You know in effect on the backs of. The poor of the world who have who have paid the interest rates on money then in seeing this widening gap between the

haves and the have. Well I don't think there's anything inconsistent between a rising standard of living in a rising quality of life for the people of the United States and a rising standard of living for people in Third World countries in fact I think they go hand in hand now. Quite obviously we've got to do some things to help those third world countries with this massive debt that they're carrying and that includes some debt restructuring and stretching out of interest payments the kinds of things which incidentally we've got to do to help our own farmers get over their particular debt problems. But in addition to that I think a strong and responsible new foreign policy for the United States has to emphasize helping third world countries especially in Latin America and Central America to build their economies to create economic opportunity and a good life for their citizens and frankly one of the reasons that I am so angry is I think the vast majority of Americans are about our policy in Central America today is because it not only is doomed to failure and is illegal but it totally misses the point which is that it's poverty and injustice and exploitation in Latin America that creates radical revolution and if we don't understand that if we don't learn that if we haven't learned it

then we're going to continue to make the same mistakes over and over again in Latin America in Central America and in third world countries generally. You're telling us what I write about my caucus. What's wrong with the idea of people you know we got into it. Paid for the experience the last couple of weeks about finding out things about that thought gonna be a hike. I shouldn't shouldn't candidates take about a critical view of one another and let us know what's wrong with the guy that you say we should. Yeah we should reject in favor of you know I've never campaigned that way John and I really dislike that kind of campaigning I don't think the American people want to know what I think of the other guy. They want to know what's right about me why I want to be president why I can make a real contribution to this country. I think you and the press will probably do a pretty good job but we get telling gabs what's wrong about us how we do it we get convey Well I don't condemn you. I believe that the press in this country performs a very important role.

I'm not saying that I agree with everything every member of the press does but you are here to keep us on our toes to make sure that we meet the kinds of standards that we set for ourselves and the people of this country set for us and my own political career which now goes back over about 25 years. I've enjoyed my relationship with the press so I think it's a very important part of what political life and government is all about and and I accept that is as an important part of public service. Governor what guarantees or warranties come with your promises. One of the things that I have noticed. With activists in both parties and I was a sense that they've seen these presidential candidates come through Iowa making promises and saying things and they get on and they they tend to break them. Jimmy Carter promises to cut the defense budget. He increased it George Bush. Ronald Reagan said they were going to cut the federal deficit. They doubled it. So what guarantee comes with that with a mike to Congress promise the guarantee of 25 years in public life now when nearly 9 is the chief

executive of an important state in this country who has a reputation for integrity for recruiting good people for motivating people for building coalitions and for making a real difference in the lives of real people. That's the thing I bring to this race a record not just promises not just speeches but something that people can look at. Contests can weigh in and can draw some conclusions about a lot's been said recently about management styles and approaches. What's yours. I'm a hands on manager Dave. I'm somebody that I think most people will tell you is in control knows what's going on I think. I probably delegate better today than I did during my first term. I think most first term chief executives have a tendency to want to know everything about everything and I was no exception but I think I've got a better sense of what is a good balance between being in control and not being so deeply involved the details that you kind of lose the forest for the trees. I'm also somebody that is a very good coalition builder one of the reasons we've had the success

that we've had in Massachusetts is is because we've been able to bring business and labor in the educational community and local leadership and good citizens together to get things done and that's something which I think is an important test of political leadership and especially a presidential leadership that a test of leadership how free are you to be objective and unbiased leader or to what extent are you committed to the to the traditions of the past or just some campaign you know obligation. I want to get back to foreign affairs and touch on a couple of sleepers and I talk about one much one is the Mideast. The whole question of an international peace meeting to do these all because of the Israeli Palestinian problem and. Given the fact that the United States is at almost uncritical support of Israel for a billion dollars a year unlimited subsidy. And politicians particularly Democrats seem

very fearful about about questioning that changing. Can we expect Mike Dukakis to be able to go in and take out. A critical unbiased neutral as it would view of the biddies problem and then make America again the honest broker between that and the this side of the well I'm not I'm not a guy who tends to be neutral. I mean I have very strong views and I think what this country wants what the people of this country the people of Iowa specially want to somebody who's going to take positions and understand why it takes them and very clear about them I am a very strong support of the state of Israel I think that's an important part of American phone probably foreign policy and I think it's something that the vast majority of American support on the other hand the future of the state of Israel clearly depends on some peaceful resolution of what has been a very very difficult situation ever since the state of Israel was created. Now I'm not going to tell you that I have the answer to the Mideast problem. It's a very very difficult set of

problems I do think that if we can put together an international conference which includes Israel and Jordan and Egypt. And responsible elements in the Palestinian community who will accept Resolution 242 and 338 as a starting point for those negotiations under the auspices of the Security Council this may well be an important step on the road toward at least um stability and maybe long term peace in the Middle East. I'm not going to say to you that that I'm overly confident about that because this is a very very difficult part of the world but I think it's rather ironic if those elements are part of it. On the other side of the world they the attitude of the Reagan administration and the Aquino administration and now I seem to be that that the problems there could be solved by military might by trying to wipe out the commies. Can there really be any resolution of the problem there and tell people like the icky You know those who own vast tracts of land that begin to break up that day and that land we have civilian land before I believe we begin to try to take they

begin to try to take care of this of this daie of the masses there. Well I think land reform is an essential part of the reform process and of bringing social and economic justice to third world countries generally whether you're talking about the Philippines or certain nations in Latin America or other third world countries. But remember this is an administration which seriously told the American people in 1904 that the only alternative to Marco's was a communist regime. Now I don't believe that I don't think you believe it and I don't think the American people believe it. And we're very fortunate that we have in Cory Aquino and in her government. An opportunity at a progressive democratic alternative to a communist regime and I think that government and she and the people working with her deserve strong support my sense is that they believe strongly in in land reform in fundamental economic reform and it's not going to be easy and they need our support and help to try to achieve it. Governor what is your competency to run American foreign policy in the last two American presidents have been governors former governors. Critics like Joe Biden

say you know you've got to have somebody who has some experience in foreign policy and he's very critical of governors who he doesn't think know very much about foreign policy. Address that question for me. Well let me say two things today first. We did have a president not too long ago who was in the Congress and the Senate was a vice president and he resigned in disgrace from the presidency. And I think what that says is that it has less to do with where you happen to live or where you happen to govern and more to do with your basic sense of what our foreign policy ought to be. Your ability to attract good people to lead to make good judgments. I'm somebody was always had a very strong interest in foreign policy and as the governor of a state that's deeply involved in the international economy. I've led trade missions to China Japan. I was one of the first governors to refuse to send my National Guard to Honduras because I refused to have my National Guardsman involved in a failed illegal policy in Central America. I believe as I said a few minutes ago that our opportunities for meaningful arms control may be the best we've ever had and I also believe very strongly that our policy

today in Iraq when Central America is is not only doomed to failure but it's a violation of our treaty commitments. So these are areas where I not only have a very strong interest but very anxious to lead as president. Governor we don't have much time and I want to bring the discussion closer to home. What would President Michael Dukakis do to improve life in rural America. He would put together with the Congress and with the leadership of our farm. A very strong rural development program an agricultural policy which provides a real safety net under the family farm but more than that a Rural Development Program which expands and diversified as a rural and small town economy provides some federal resources along with the state and private resources too diversified to create new jobs and good jobs. I've seen in my own state that very same regional policy work in small town in rural Massachusetts and I have no doubt that it can work in Iowa.

It can work in a brassica but it can work in Missouri and in small and small town and rural areas all over America the rural economy in Iowa is highly dependent upon foreign trade. And I'm wondering where Michel to caucus comes down in that fine line of reconciling protectionism with the need for free trade and the desire of this country to participate in free trade in order to have a strong rural America and other segments of the economy too. I'm somebody who believes as I think most Americans believe that we are all better off if we have more trade not less trade and that will be the guiding principle of any trade policy that I'm responsible for is the present United States. Now there are some particular things in the international economy that do require some action on our part when we have another country that absolutely buys access to American goods. I think we have to do something about that attack. I think the principle of reciprocity is an important one but so much of our trade policies these days have to do with our failure

to get our own house in order to straighten out this budget mess to build a strong domestic economy you know if if all of the trade barriers in the world to a birken goods came down tomorrow we'd still have a trade deficit one hundred twenty five billion dollars and I am very very concerned about the possibility of retaliation. Back in 1983 we put restrictions on Chinese textiles. The first thing the Chinese did was stop buying American wheat American soybeans. Now we're going to learn from that. And as we develop our trade policy we've got to do so in a way which seeks to expand trade and not bring it down and that's the kind of trade policy I favor. Governor in just a minute or so we have left one of the elements that you see that would go into your program to reduce the federal deficit in the national debt. There are three things which one has to do if one is serious about bringing that budget into balance. The first obviously is to make some hard choices on spending and incidentally Dave to put in place certain policies which can improve the lives of people and save money. Helping people to get off of welfare being the most obvious. Secondly we have to improve our economic

performance at the unemployment rate in the United States today was 5 percent not six and a half percent. The deficit will be down another 50 billion dollars the third thing obviously is to raise revenue. No responsible candidate for the presidency can rule out new taxes. But before I would ask for new taxes I think we've got to collect the hundred and ten billion dollars a year in taxes owed that are being paid in this country and incidentally that's going to be two hundred billion dollars a year in unpaid taxes by 1993. I'm the governor of a state like a number of states that has had spectacular success at a very strong and visible and aggressive revenue enforcement program. And I think that's where you begin I don't think you impose new taxes on people who are already paying them unless and until you go out and get that minority of folks and businesses who are not paying the taxes. And we have to end right here. Thank you very much Governor Dukakis and being our guest tonight and I will press before we go all those of you who are watching tonight if you have any comments or questions about I will press you can write is by addressing it to a post office box sixty four fifty in Johnston

Iowa with the zip is 5 0 1 3 1 again. Post Office Box 64 50 the zip is 5 0 1 3 1. Until next week for a paddle state the ups in the job the calling I've been bored. Thanks for being with us tonight. Stay tuned now for take one. Major funding for Iowa was provided by friends of Iowa Public Television.