The Exchange; Interview with Joe Lieberman

From an HPI I'm Laura Conaway and this is the exchange of New Hampshire residents are privileged just to have the nation's first presidential primary. We can get a real up close and personal feeling for a candidate. In fact there's an old saying that we won't vote for someone unless we can see them touch them smell them. Today in the day the first presidential candidate interview U.S. Senator Joe Lieberman is in the studio a three term Democrat from Connecticut. He was Al Gore's running mate in the last presidential election. And we're going to do something a little different today on the exchange since it's so early in the primary process. We're going to talk more about who Joe Lieberman is and how he thinks rather than his position on any one particular issue. And we're going to talk a lot about history to what Senator Lieberman Lieberman has learned from past occupants of the Oval Office. Join us with your calls of course. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 1 800 8 9 2 HPR. Senator Lieberman. So nice to have you Laura. Great to be here. Thank you. So you haven't heard that

see him smell him touch him. Not quite that way. I'm glad I put my aftershave on. Bob Dole always used to say things like about the voters in New Hampshire primaries he said lost her vote because I only saw her three times. Many other states. So but I must say that that what what you're saying. The reality of what you're saying and the power of it has come in to me in the three and a half months that I've been a candidate for president of the United States and my wife said it may be quick as she said this experience is very Maxy and very many and which is to say that it is big we are obviously running for the highest office in the most powerful country in the world the greatest country in the world and yet it is very personal very local and the truth is just as we all learned back and what I used to call grammar school you know they call it elementary school

that the decision of individuals you know in places like New Hampshire and then growing numbers of individuals decide who will lead this country. I know it's self-evident. But in what I do on the campaign trail almost every day the power of that reality comes to me. And of course the greatness of it because that is what democracy is it's really done handshake by handshake. And what that means is consent of the governed. That's the whole notion here that power is exercised with the consent of the governed and every four years in the nominating process and in the election those citizens have a right to decide and really do. Who governs them. You said you know here you are running for the top office in the land and yet doing a coffee shop buy coffee shop by hand shake my hand shake on your Web site Senator Lieberman you talk about your parents and children of immigrants working the way into middle class. And you say we never imagined that one day I would have the opportunity to run for president that highest office in

office in the land. Why not. Why not. I never imagined. Yeah. Well you know I did grow up. I mean my story is like tens of millions of other American stories. My grandparents came here as immigrants seeking freedom opportunity a better life and where in security they came from Central and Eastern Europe. It was the you know the combination when group came from Poland the other from part of Russia and another from Ukraine and they met up here. So they came for all of them my parents then next generation born here worked their way up into the middle class. Neither my mom or dad had the chance to go to college but they worked real hard to make sure that my sisters and me had that opportunity and I would do I mean my sisters and I had that opportunity to focus my grammar school was listening and

they gave us a faith to not just faith in the literal sense but a faith in America that if you worked hard and played by the rules there ought not to be any limit to how far you could go other than your own talents. Thank you Senator Lieberman. My dad ran a liquor store where I was teased in Connecticut maybe here too they had a wonderful euphemism they called it a package store in Massachusetts to get them back. And you know it's the classic story started out in the Depression working on a bakery truck and found his way from New Haven where he was with his family down to Stanford where my mom was they met and I fell in love. She let me get a little personal of my wonderful wonderful stories to my mom and I would tell my dad is gone now for about 17 18 years. But after they met and decided to get married my my uncles were in the package store business said that they would help my dad

open up a store rent a place and he couldn't marry my mother until he was making $25 a week. This was this was a this was an incentive. And they set up the store adding that my dad would always tell me that at the beginning he'd buy you know a case of liquor and a couple of cases of beer and then when he'd sell on made by double the amount. Anyway in the end you know he made a good living there. But the little strip mall of five or six stores that the store was in and just a very honorable hardworking man who gave my mom was a was a housewife and mother you know she helped my dad in the stores. That was all she did she had come from a generation where she went to work when she was 12 at school at a store to get money to contribute to her family's well-being. Great people good values. I always say that that I was lucky. From the second I was born have these parents. And you said that you know they taught you and your sisters that you know Dream Big think high so why and why. We never imagined that.

I believe only have the opportunity to mentor. Just seemed pissed off at that point. I wasn't thinking. And my dream was to be a major league outfielder of course. But as time went on taking the values that my parents taught me that my religion taught me about the importance of service to community trying to make the world better and then in the last year of high school and Senator Kennedy of Massachusetts comes along and for me and so many in my generation he represented he he inspired us into public service so I got into politics and then I got interested in it. And so were you at school when I was 18 in 1960. So you can figure out how old I am but I'm not going to tell you now I'm 61. But so here's what I'm saying. I got interested I wasn't you know thinking of running yet but I started to form dreams. I went through college and law school by law school I think if you had stopped me on the way out of law school and said Joe what's your dream for

ever. And I would have said if everything goes well in my life I would love to be a United States senator. I was influenced by way back then way back then I wouldn't have said it to you because it was it would have seemed much too ambitious but inside myself but President seemed beyond my reach. Why do you think it was it just didn't so big it's possible at some subconscious level but not really I mean if you're asking me because I'm a Jewish American I wondered about it I must say that and I've said this during the campaign. If you give me a moment I'll go back. One of the fascinating and inspiring responses to my candidacy for vice president in 2000 was not only the great not just tolerance but acceptance of me as a candidate for just about everybody in the country. My religion was an irrelevance. They were going to judge me as a person a candidate what kind of job would I do. But beyond that I found that there were other groups in America working their way up who were

empowered by my candidacy and it was I didn't expect it. I was touched by it talking about African-Americans Latinos women who still are not really fully adequately represented in any sense in political office. And I I I went back to 1960 and I know that at some point in my heart and head apart from his capabilities and positions. Part of what drew me to John F. Kennedy was that he would be the first Roman Catholic to be president and that I had a sense that when that happened if it did that doors would open for me is a Jewish-American that otherwise might not have opened. Believe me I wasn't thinking about running for president and it was just a sense that this was going to raise you know this whole thing is absolutely right. So but so I wasn't thinking about you know being present all. Also when I became a senator in

1988 I felt as if that after having been a state senator an attorney general that was I was lucky I was blessed that I had really realize my dream and now I had to go to work to make it make it work make it mean something to people in my state and my country. And then Al Gore selected me for vice president were you surprised. Well I was a man don't know how much you want to tell me about it. By that time you have to cross a barrier there because it's a process. I mean I got selected of course I can tell you the exact date August 7th 2000 but back in oh I think it was April or May. Right right at the beginning of May I got the first call from former Secretary of State Warren Christopher who said he wanted to come to talk to me about the vice presidency. He was doing this for Vice President Gore. He spoke to 25 30 people then it was a preliminary interview.

Then early in June I was put and I started to think about it because I first it was a reality and by that time I must say you have to ask yourself first. Am I ready for this right. Do you want to be a heartbeat away. Do I want to be here. And as with a sense of responsibility. Am I prepared to be president and as awesome as that is you have to say that you know we're all we're all imperfect humans but based on my experience I have felt ready and as it went on and I got to the shortlist which happened in June and my wife and I'm a family talked about whether we wanted to go forward. And then the vice president himself of course had to make a judgment. Was I ready because as he said to me after it was over that the first criteria criteria that he was going to apply to the selection was well the person I choose to be my running mate be capable of being president. In the case of an emergency and will the American people see him that way. So you have to cross that

barrier self I was grateful that Vice President Gore made the judgment occurs profoundly grateful that he gave me the opportunity and also honored notwithstanding the strange way in which the 2000 election ended that more than $50 million of my fellow Americans made the same judgment that I was prepared to be president if necessary. So it is it is when that was over. If I can come back to your question Laura that that I first began to think about running for president was that experience running for vice president made you think know maybe I can do this and maybe I want to maybe I want to do it and maybe this is this is big and demanding and you don't you're not able to live what I would describe as a normal life I have. We're a close family and it's hard to be separated from family so that took a lot of conversation with my wife particularly and our kids and then we all decided it was a moment of

historic opportunity to be of service at a tough time for our country. And I thought I could help. And there they said let's do it. And they've been great so far. Let's invite our listeners to join us 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. This is the exchange on HPR. I'm Laura Conaway. And it is the first of our presidential primary candidate interviews today. U.S. Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut is our guest now the primary is many many months away so we're taking a little different tack with these first interviews. We are just finding out how the candidates think what their backgrounds are what motivates them. And we'll talk in a moment a little bit more about what presidents have inspired them. Join us with your calls 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 1 800 892 n. h p. You mentioned Kennedy as being some who really kind of inspired me to get into politics. Health Wealth has been an inspiration.

Well of course one of the favorite presidents and most everybody is Teddy Roosevelt and he did it because the presidency is all about leadership. He's a Republican. He was a Republican. But you know a committed Republican bubble ready to be independent when he thought that something he believed in was right for the country even if a lot of Republicans didn't agree with him. And that's not a bad standard because I like him also because he was a great environmentalist which has been very important to me in my public service. And you know he was a trust buster and there are times you know I'm pro-business. Business creates jobs creates investments that average people put money into stocks and give them security but when business doesn't follow the rules it's the government that has to come down on them as we've seen in our time with Enron. So I like that Roosevelt Franklin Roosevelt inspirational got us out of the recession depression led to victory in the war. I tell you I'm in some senses I'm more

personally attracted to Harry Truman It just seemed to me that there was a straightforwardness he had he expressed. Mainstream American values. That's interesting because he's kind of an unsung hero. You see him up on Mount Rushmore. No. Maybe we should find a place for Harry and give them hell Harry. There was a directness to him which I like. He was he was tough in the world at a at a difficult time when communism was coming on. On the other hand he was he was very progressive here at home and the whole post-war effort to get America moving forward to create opportunity. And he presided over the extraordinary post-war boom in our economy where so many people worked their way into the middle class which was you know the the heart of the American dream and the American promise Kennedy which I talked about would come too close to Clinton and away by age and everything else we know it's hard to remember. But notwithstanding the personal mistakes he made which you know I was publicly critical of I think people

on the Senate floor and criticized him. Yeah I think people will look back at his presidency and say that he was a he was a great president he was a time to state as directly as I can a remarkable prosperity and peace and I was just lucky. I mean business cycles do go in ups and downs. Look there's some of that in everything. I mean that's an important point part of the the new Democratic movement that I'm a part of Clinton was a part of always says let's not over estimate the role of government in our lives. Government has to play a role to create a context for a fairer society. Freedom good business growth climate job creation. But the work is really done by the by the private sector so that there's a balance there yes. You come on at Lucky times and not so lucky times. Clinton came on at a tough time and he forcefully took our party and I was proud to work with him on this in a totally different direction which was back to fiscal

discipline. One thing the government can do to help the economy help job creation help security retirement security is to get our own books in balance which we did made some tough decisions to do it and then investing in some education particularly as a way to not only make the American dream real but make the economy better because education is the key to economic growth these days and then be being supportive of some tax cuts that particularly work not just to throw money away particularly not to people who already have enough but to create some incentives for businesses particularly to do some things that help the economy. So I think the record it wouldn't let me put it this way. The good times of the 90s would not just have happened automatically if if the Clinton-Gore administration had not created the context in which they could happen and help them along. Same is true internationally. Clinton personality's ability to communicate created great

confidence in America around the world which made us more secure. We've lost that under President Bush in the last couple of years dramatically because he has not sustained those alliances. And of course President Clinton was personally engaged in some of the world's worst trouble spots Northern Ireland Israel Palestinian conflict North Korea and acted I think very effectively to try to hold those conflicts down and even to make them better. So I think right now probably you get mixed reviews on President Clinton but my guess is that history will treat him kindly. Well I want to ask you more about that later but the callers are there and they're dying to talk. OK let's go to the phones 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 is our phone number here on the exchange. Join us. We are getting to know U.S. Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut. He's in New Hampshire he's running for president. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Our first caller is Jerry. She's calling from Windham. Hi Jerry go

ahead. Hi. I have a question for Mr. Lieberman please. Hi Gary. Hi Jerry. Good morning. Well good morning. Now I understand that you traditionally celebrate the Sabbath Saturday. Correct. And I don't want it to be this in any way interfere with your responsibilities as president. I am really glad you asked that question because I know that my Sabbath observance is different and I want to be able to explain it to people. Your question is a very fair question. You know we observe the Sabbath as a way to honor the Sabbath to keep it holy remember that that's it's all about honoring the creation and in a sense simplistically stated thanking God for the fact that that there is a world and we're alive and reminding ourselves. I always say about what we ought to be doing and the other six days to try to make it better. But my. And so over the generations both the Bible and the

rabbis have created prohibitions to try to protect the Sabbath as a day of rest. And so most Sabbaths I go to the synagogue I pray at home I'm with my family. It's a quiet quiet and peaceful and really reinvigorating time. But the the both as a matter of my own judgment and also my own religious tradition as the Bible says that God gave us these laws to live by. And the purpose is to uphold life. So if you're if you're stopping to honor creation and the ultimate act of creation was creation of men and women people it would be a strange result if you're in a position where you can protect or advance life for the life of the community and you didn't do it on the Sabbath because of the restrictions so that might give you the best example I go to synagogue with doctors there beeper goes off.

Normally you don't respond to a beeper on the Sabbath. They're required to but by our tradition they go to a phone they call up they find out to somebody need them. Normally you don't use a phone if somebody needs them to get in their car and drive to wherever that person is. Normally you don't do that on the Sabbath so that is a life or death situation. Yeah it's going to it's also the well-being of the community for instance when I was attorney general of the really important decisions are actually had to take Friday night or Saturday. My staff knew that they should come to me as a senator. I've just about never missed a vote on a Friday night or Saturday because my. It's a responsibility. It's not just even life or death or war and peace. But if there's a budget vote on a Friday night or Saturday which determines how much money will go to health care or education or homeland security or if there's a budget meeting at the White House which there were several of during some of the crises in 93 and 97 that the president asked me to be president Clinton. I went and I felt like it was quite consistent with my observance of the Sabbath. So

bottom line particularly as president when every moment you have critical judgments to make about the security of the American people I would never hesitate to act or be briefed constantly. So I maybe I'd say say it this way I would be president you know 24 hours seven days a week. I don't do politics on the Sabbath. So it's a little clearer now that that is critical. Right. So the politics open to 24 hours six days a week. All right Gerri thank you for that. And we'll take more of your calls in just a moment after the latest news from NPR. We'll continue our conversation with U.S. Senator Joe Lieberman. Again you can join us 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. This is the exchange on an HPR. War with U.S. Senator Joe Lieberman who is running for the Democratic presidential nomination in

2004. Coming up on the exchange after a news update from NPR. And coming up on the Diane Rehm Show this morning a panel of reporters looks at the top news stories of the week. Diane Rehm Show a 10 on HPR 9:29 and Dan COLGAN At HPR we get support from our listeners and from Ben and Associates Incorporated in organizational development and leadership consultants helping businesses and nonprofit organizations create their future from Goose Bay lumber company of chai Cester providing specialty lumber for wood artisans turners furniture craftsman and boat builders. Information at 7 9 8 5 1 3 5 and Keene State College providing innovative programs and new facilities for New Hampshire's future scientists and science teachers keen dot edu. From NPR News in Washington I'm Gene Cochran. Efforts are under way to restore power and assess the damage caused by another round of violent storms in

the Midwest. Seven tornadoes crossed the state of Kansas yesterday one hit Oklahoma City hard. It was the second round of severe storms in less than a week. American Red Cross spokesman David Ruddock's says it's been a massive relief operation. This rash of tornadoes down here is in America's heartland has prompted the most simultaneous in the way of relief operations as the September 11th attacks. We've currently got operations in eight states going in and you know the severe weather continues to move around and threaten different areas. Those operations are growing and expanding into other states. Since Sunday tornadoes and severe storms have killed at least 42 people across the Midwest and plains. Officials estimate damage in the hundreds of millions of dollars. India today test fired a new air to air missile. The test came just hours before senior U.S. envoy Richard Armitage was due in New Delhi. Martha overland has more from New Delhi India consistently denies that its weapons testing program is connected to other events. But the timing strikes many as unusual.

This past week the Indian prime minister called for an end to hostilities with neighboring Pakistan. Pakistan responded in kind. And both countries have moved quickly to restore diplomatic ties encouraged by the steps the two long time enemies have made. Armitage is in the region to meet with the leaders of both nations but the U.S. knows that the issue of Kashmir the disputed region that each claim remains unresolved whether the test fired short range missile a missile that could only reach Pakistan will be counterproductive is unclear. The defense ministry said that it will conduct another test in the next 48 hours. For NPR News I'm Martha and overland in New Delhi The U.S. will formally introduce a U.N. resolution today detailing its vision for a post-war Iraq. Linda Vasudev reports. The U.S. plan calls for the United States and Britain to largely run Iraq for a minimum of one year with some U.N. and other international involvement. The eight page draft resolution would lift all U.N. sanctions against Iraq except for a weapons embargo

and phase out the U.N. Oil for Food program over four months. Money some oil sales would be deposited in a new fund which would have an international advisory board and be used to meet humanitarian needs and finance reconstruction. The U.S. and Britain would direct dispersal in consultation with an Iraqi interim authority a U.N. special envoy would help coordinate humanitarian efforts support reconstruction and Government Reform. U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte said Washington would like the resolution to be adopted by early June. For NPR News I'm into SuBo at the United Nations. Checking Wall Street at the first few minutes of trading the Dow is up by 43 points. And the Nasdaq is up 15. This is NPR News. Support for NPR comes from NPR stations and from Herriott and Richard gold for support of the NPR endowment helping to ensure NPR's financial future.

This is the exchange on an HPI. I'm Laura Conaway. Monday on the exchange. New England's crazy unpredictable weather. We'll get the facts behind the whims of weather here. Now that's Monday in the exchange today. We're talking with U.S. Senator Joe Lieberman. He is a Democrat from Connecticut. He's running for president. He was Al Gore's running mate in the 2000 presidential election. His political career began in Connecticut State Senate. He was the state attorney general. Join us with your questions or comments 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. It's sort of an introductory interview today we haven't been focusing so much on particular issues but more on what motivates Senator Lieberman what's got him to the point where he is now again our number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Senator Lieberman let's go back to them right from center sandwich. Dan joins us. Dan welcome Go ahead. Hi. Hi. LIEBERMAN I'm glad you're taking the call today. Good. My question is you spoke about the inspiration of Kennedy and kind of coming of age during the early 60s.

And I was thinking about kind of where nuclear weapons have have traversed our landscape over that time and you know growing up with the Cuban Missile Crisis and going through you know the 80s and just I'm guess I'm wondering like where your perspective on nuclear weapons proliferation has has grown and changed over time. Yeah. It's a very very important question and it's not one we we talked about enough. And believe me as president I would make nuclear arms control in the in the in the current context a priority of my foreign policy. Very briefly I was I was quite interested in this early in my life but which is to say when I was at law school and I wrote a book called The scorpion in the tyrannically which was about the first efforts to control atomic weapons. After the Second World War and the extent to which unfortunately Russia and the United States were like a scorpion and a tarantula in the bottle the

classic metaphor that they each think the other is about to attack so they're not willing to take a risk to do what one hopes idealistically they might have done then which is to create an international system for controlling atomic energy and atomic weapons. And of course the rest is history. There were as the cold war wound down. There were some significant breakthroughs in arms control treaties we're still negotiating them in with the Russians and we're actually implementing them so there's a reduction of the grotesquely excessive nuclear weaponry that the two superpowers during the Cold War had. And each of us I think understands that we have a self interest in doing that. Why do you need the power to destroy the world many times over and worry about accidents. But now we're in another chapter of history and threats and that's predictable. There are less people in it and in its way it is even more

frightening because while we were in the in the clash with the Soviet Union during the Cold War there was an extent to which notwithstanding or maybe even proven by the Cuban missile crisis that the Russian leadership by and large was not insane. And we had this balance of terror and so when the confrontation occurred and Kennedy stood up to to Khrushchev. They backed down and that was it. But now the problem is you've got the capacity to build nuclear weapons spreading. More countries have them. It's less controlled. It's less controlled. And now you have subnational groups that is groups beyond lower than nations terrorist groups can conceivably even criminal criminal groups underworld groups and they can buy nuclear weapons so that to me the most serious threat now in the world now that Saddam is gone is North Korea

because you've got a country here I think the Bush administration has truly handled this badly taken a difficult situation made it dangerous because the North Koreans under Kim Jong Il are now producing are about to produce nuclear weapons reprocessing the fuel that the danger is of course in part that they might use them. But even more that they'll sell them and I sure do. Well the first thing I would have done Look President Clinton again when a similar challenge by the North Koreans set down and negotiated with them and we worked out an agreement which they literally kept. They unfortunately were cheating on another part of nuclear weapons uranium enrichment programs but they kept the plutonium part of it by shutting down that nuclear power plant and young beyond I would have said that right away last fall. So over a high level negotiator all of our allies in the region South Korea Japan China sometimes and allies sometimes not told us we got to sit down with Kim Jong il negotiate. This guy is just asking. He's trying to get your attention. United States he's asking for

an agreement to establish normal relations. He's even open to eliminating his nuclear weapons with international inspection if you give them economic aid that that would have been worth doing and if for some reason those negotiations failed we'd have all the other much less attractive options. So I worry about this. I think that this are we have to work very hard. North Korea Iran to stop the proliferation of nuclear weapons because at some point the odds of an accident or an intentional use of nuclear weapons by what we call a rogue nation we're really talking about somebody who doesn't play by the rules doesn't care about creating massive deaths will happen. And I wouldn't make that a priority of my foreign policy. Let's go to Linda. She's calling from Hanover. Linda welcome go ahead. Hi. Senator Lieberman Good morning. You know that I worked hard in the upper valley for you when Al Gore and as far as I'm concerned. You know what you should be.

Thank you. Legally Yeah. Well I agree. That's what we're going to we're going to settle that score and to. Sure I going to work and try to settle it here. My question is about this war in Iraq that we've just well we're still going to in a way and soldiers are just killed here. I have two boys in the army. I don't care if the officer said over there Linda. Well one was supposed to be over there but he got sick and he didn't go. But he had a lot of friends over there and some of them did. My question is yes it's a hypothetical but again it is one that I'm very concerned about. Let's say you were the vice president Al Gore was the president. And September 11 happened and we were in Afghanistan and trying to straighten out this situation over there with al Qaeda. Would you answer this as quickly as you can without going to beating

around the bush. Sure. Do you believe that Al Gore and Joe Lieberman would have invaded Iraq and we'd be there right now or do you think that maybe we'd be concentrating more on the Afghanistan situation and international terrorism real international air. Linda I'm getting a sense from you that that's where you think the emphasis should be not on Iraq but on my towel on my colleagues and friends who are in politics today that if Al Gore were president we wouldn't we wouldn't be playing these games in Iraq. Well let's get Senator Lieberman's response. Yeah it's an important question. You know I think in fairness I should answer it for myself because I have some feelings about what I think and I would have done but I really should leave it to him one. Well maybe I will say this. I I'm I'm positive that that a President Gore would have done basically what was done with regard to Afghanistan after September 11th I don't I don't know how any president of any party

Scuse me could not have done that. I do think we would have done one thing differently than this had a lot to do with what followed. The NATO allies voted to come to our our side in the war against Afghanistan first time in the history of NATO that it invoked Article 5 which says an attack against one is an attack against all. And the Bush administration said no thanks and that created the kind of anger embarrassment insecurity in Europe that began to spawn the problems that we faced heading into the war against Saddam when the Europeans were some of our closest allies were fighting. So I would say yes to Afghanistan. On Iraq I think I better answer myself. I think we gave Saddam. I mean I've long felt certainly since 98 when John McCain Bob Kerry and I put in legislation on the subject that was adopted that Saddam Hussein was a threat to the region that he had weapons of mass destruction. That our goal should have been to change his regime get him out of there. We had a

different method we wanted to do we wanted to have America aggressively support the Iraqi opposition to build them up so that they could throw them out. That didn't happen. Frankly neither the administration you're saying that was tried it wasn't tried really it was. We passed the law but it was never really implemented by the Clinton administration Clinton or the Bush administration's Bush administration got interested in Iraq after September 11th. I think we gave Saddam every chance including in response to the resolution of last fall and the United Nations and again he didn't he didn't do what we were asked him to do which wasn't a lot which was just to account for the weapons of mass destruction that the U.N. not us thought he had when the inspectors were last tossed out in 1998. So I'm afraid that we had no choice. So a president Lieberman would have gone ahead with the war against Saddam. I believe that I would have had more international support because I wouldn't have wouldn't have separated us. As President Bush did in the preceding years on a host

of other issues like climate change arms control International Court of Criminal Justice Nieto from us. But I think it's necessary now of course the question is What are we going to do about it. We've won. We're fortunate to have her here and now we we really have to stay involved to make sure that the people of Iraq live better as a result the Bush administration so far has seemed very unprepared to assume that responsibility or to invite our allies back in to take part in and paying for and making sure that happens now in the buildup to war. And this goes back to the history discussion that we were having earlier. Yes. Some say that President Clinton didn't do enough that there was you know a little pot shot strikes here and there but that he didn't really focus on it enough in Saddam's arsenal grill. That's one line of thinking. Well we did try everything during the 90s short of war. We tried inspections we tried economic sanctions we tried diplomacy we even tried some military action in 1998 after

Saddam kicked the UN inspectors out. And it's part of the reason why I felt that we had no choice but to take military action in 2003. So I don't I don't fault the last administration for that. I think that they tried to give Saddam every chance and he didn't take them and that's why we had no choice but to act as we did. And thank God that the American military was a strong and effective as they were. But we did lose you know over 125 Americans two from Connecticut and you know they're in their memory. We have to hang in there to make sure that the result of our victory is is a better freer life for the Iraqi people. Is there any good example Senator Lieberman where people have been quote unquote liberated by another army the American army or otherwise and they've gone onto you know live long and prosper.

Yeah. Well the best example of course which we forget in a way is World War II and the the the Germans particularly and also the Japanese we conquered them turned around and turned around and helped them and of course they. They built better for our lives and became our allies which was great. You might say the same occurred in Korea after the Korean War that the South Koreans went on to after a period of military rule to form a democracy to live better for our lives so it can be done. But it requires the victors to hang in there. And having won the war not to lose the peace. Scuse me this victory in Iraq now gives us an opportunity to win another victory in another in a battle if I can put it that way in the larger war against terrorism and what do I mean by that the war against terrorism is a war essentially not just to capture and kill al Qaeda. It is a war

for the hearts and minds of the Islamic world and the Arab world. And we now have an opportunity in Iraq to show the Arab world what we're about. And I'm worried that we're not off to a good start there to show that our values are about helping people regardless of religion or nationality to live a better life including freedom of religion so that the Shia Muslims for instance in Iraq will be much freer. As we've already seen in some of their protests and they were under Saddam and that together we can build a better life for all of our people. Let's go back to the phones 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. U.S. Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut is with us today. He's in New Hampshire running in the presidential primary and it is the first of our primary candidate interviews with him. We'll be hearing from other candidates and from Senator Lieberman. And again as that campaign progresses today it's more about getting to know you asking Senator Lieberman just how he's come to run for president. Join us 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7

from Putney Vermont. Eric is at Pyrate go ahead. Good morning. I have a generalist question Senator. Good morning. Good morning. I'm a Democrat and there are many of us who are very disillusioned at the fact that the Democrats in Congress are not showing much of a fire in trying to counteract what is going on in the the White House you know the Halliburton Corporation now has an open ended contract at a time when it was supposed to be a shortage of oil and some of my neighbors were in desperate straits up here. The elderly you know literally could not purchase that well. And we come to find that the Exxon Corporation made absolute record profits correct billions at the same time. Right. Our guys were over there dying. We don't get it. What's going on.

We don't hear any fire coming out of it already and it's very disheartening. I hear you. And look we've been fighting. I certainly have. And the question is whether you can you can get people to listen or hear I mean one of the things we lost when we lost the White House as Democrats as the largest megaphone in American politics. But I couldn't agree with you more you know just two days ago I put out my own declaration of energy independence. I called for fuel efficiency. I called for better or more environmentally protective use of our natural resources. Big investments in alternative clean energy sources. But I did say exactly what you said which is we can't allow ourselves to be controlled either by foreign oil producers who hurt our economy or buy oil companies. And this is where I talked about Teddy Roosevelt before. This is where the government is the only one who can protect the American people in the American economy. I mean for too long they've been

draining us in what you said is absolutely right. The number is seven billion dollars. Well people here in New Hampshire and around the country were paying $2 a gallon for gasoline while we in New England. I'm from Connecticut obviously sorry. Home heating oil prices go up this winter as much as more than 50 percent. The oil. Exxon Mobil was making $7 billion in profit in income in three months. So what does the government do to regulate prices or regulate profits. You've got to be willing. Look when I was attorney general I sued them I hold them in a court. I said you're your price gouging you're profiteering. The government has to be a watchdog and the effect is that the Bush administration has yielded over and over again to special interest groups. These folks in the administration are from the oil industry. They're not going to they're not going to police the oil industry. Caller is right about Halliburton. I've asked for an investigation by the general accounting office. No bid contracts for billions of dollars for a work in Iraq from the Bush administration.

Obviously Dick Cheney used to be the CEO of Halliburton I mean this is not. We didn't we didn't fight the war we didn't lose 125 lives to make the energy companies rich. We did it to protect our security and to make life better for the Iraqis and unless we have a government that is willing to really stand by those principles the victory the military victory that was one is going to be lost. And certainly in the end public opinion in the Arab world and more broadly so I promise you caller that I'm going to be very tough on these questions. My experience as attorney general will guide me you gotta fight for what's right if people don't play by the rules. The government has to come down on them. Only the government really can do it and that's the way we're going to get our economy going again. We've lost half a million jobs in the last three months. We've lost almost $3 million since Bush became president. And it's got to stop. Our caller also asked about you know he said Democrats not showing much fire and

countering Bush. It makes me wonder if Democrats are afraid to criticize the wartime president. No. And look I feel particularly able to do it. I know my position on the war was controversial among many Democrats. I did it because I believed it was the right thing for our country I hope people even if they disagreed with me take that as a measure of what I'm prepared to do I think strength as a president means you got to be prepared to do what's right for your country even if it is an unpopular. But I think having taken that position I feel not the slightest hesitation in criticizing Bush in all the areas I disagree with him. The economic failure of this administration. Job insecurity health care and security education and security. The extent to which the administration has compromised their civil rights women's rights civil liberties awful record on environmental protection. I mean that is so that's why I come back to what I said at the beginning I'm running for president to provide strong and I

think more effective leadership in the world. But a whole different approach than the Bush administration to what's happening here in America. We've lost hope here in America. Very quickly you mentioned the Civil Liberties Act. Did you vote for the Patriot Act after 9/11. I did. And I say that was how some people feel that was a major night for enjoyment I did with some hesitation Pat Leahy from neighboring Vermont was the chair of the Judiciary Committee he did a good job at toning down some of the worst parts of the Bush administration proposal I remember saying one of the things we put in it very important the Patriot Act wouldn't last forever it is. Absolutely and that's going on right now has gone on right now. The Republicans tried to take that sunset provision out but I was very very pleased we stood up tough in Orrin Hatch who's now the Republican chairman of the Committee said yesterday that we're going to we're going to have to renew the Patriot Act and in doing so we're going to take a look at some of the ways in which it was used and some of the ways in which it was used are not in the best traditions of American justice. I mean you don't even and in a

wartime situation when you apprehend an enemy combatant you don't deny that person the right to counsel as the Bush administration has done. That's that's not the American way. Let's take one more let's go to Durham. And Christiane joins us from there. Hello. Hi there. Go ahead. Good morning. Quick question for you. Yes. Growing up Jewish and I'm sure a lot of people's minds is the situation in the Middle East and that right now. Israel and their struggle with Palestine and I guess my question is how personally is your personal background with Judaism going to affect the decisions made as far as whether we continue to back up Israel because that right as you know causing a lot of strife in the Arab world. Are you asking could he be fair in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and how how.

Yeah. And he's got he's got about 30 seconds to do it. This is a great question to ask a question like the ones asked of President Kennedy when he ran Are you going to be loyal to the Vatican or loyal to the United States. And he said what I would say you take an oath of loyalty to the Constitution and to the United States. I'm running as an American who happens to be Jewish not the other way around. My record on the Middle East conflict is clear I favor in our interests and in the region's interests. A two state solution Israel next to Palestine. I believe this administration has not really advanced that cause because it's been disengaged from the region. I would get back engaged. I know the Israelis I know the Palestinians I believe they both trust me and I believe that I that I would have the opportunity and the commitment to actually make more progress than this president or any of the other candidates would make. It has to start with the Palestinians agreeing to make a 100 percent effort to stop terrorism against Israelis once they do that the Israelis have to reciprocate. I believe they

can be convinced to do that. And then we can be back to the road to peace. Wasn't President Bush though the first president to call for a Palestinian state. I don't think so. I mean I know he did it but I think since Oslo in 1993 began most everybody not everybody has understood that this is the only way for this to end would be for there to be a Palestinian state. And every time I go there the people on both sides are living lives that are so much less than they they could be and should be if there was peace that that I just feel we've got to convince the leaders on both sides to do what's best for both of their peoples. And I'm willing to do that. Lots to talk about. Good to talk again. Thank you very much. U.S. Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut Democrat running for president. The exchange is a production of HPR produced by Mary Kruger Sally Hirsch and Ty Fraley our engineer is Dan Colgan. And I'm like can I