The Exchange; Interview with Sam Brownback on His Presidential Candidacy

From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Laura Conaway and this is the exchange. From. Kansas Senator and Republican presidential candidate Sam Brownback has a real opportunity this week to keep up the momentum he recently gained in Iowa going strong in New Hampshire. BROWNBACK finished among the top three in the Iowa Republican straw poll in August. He's now attracting respectable crowds and has another chance to present himself to Granite Staters at a presidential debate tomorrow night. Senator Brownback describes his politics as full scale conservative on economic issues. He favors killing the tax code with a dull axe and replacing it with a flat tax on social matters. The senator says he's pro-life and whole life. I believe that the child in the womb should be protected and that we should also protect the person that's on poverty or the child that's in Darfur or working with prisoners that are needing work so that they don't have so much recidivism and choice back in this system. And I think that's a way to

embrace and praying people into our pro-life message just to say yes I'm pro-life with the child in the womb but I'm also for that lady that's a single mother with three children and I'm going to do everything I can to help and to work with her too. But on one key issue immigration Brownback differs from his party's base. He supported parts of President Bush's immigration reform plan that was defeated earlier this summer. Today in exchange Kansas Senator Sam Brownback is in our studios to talk about his political philosophy where he stands on the issues and why he wants to be president. We'll take your calls and e-mails. Our phone number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. E-mail is exchange at any. Senator Brownback Good morning welcome to New Hampshire thank you for coming. Well it's a pleasure to be here. What a beautiful day out too. It was just great. You can just feel the false start he didn't catch I mean it's just a day after Labor Day but you can just feel that the trees are starting to say OK I think it's time to start turning out. So a couple of red leaves on the way. I want to dive in right away Senator Brownback

with you into Iraq as you know huge concern for voters. Major issue in every presidential debate probably be one of the number one questions that you get tomorrow night if you Senator Brownback could tell President Bush right now what you think he should do on Iraq what would you tell him. I'd tell him he's got a fabulous opportunity right now to take the military surge and the successes that it's produced and transition it into a political surge in Iraq because that's what's got to take place the military can't solve it all can do is give you space for the political to operate. And yet what we're going to see out of the Petraeus report I believe you're going to see that that he's going to say the military has made excellent progress and we've seen little to no political progress in Iraq. We don't have de bath vacation laws. We don't have the oil division taking place. You still have the Sunni and Shia at each other's throats. So I think clearly clearly the way to go and this is a bill that Joe Biden and I have together it's a bipartisan proposal is to really break Iraq up into three states one country but three states with a Kurdish north a Sunni west a Shia south. Baghdad is a federal city. That is the ultimate

status of what's going to take place and you should take this military surge as progress. Send Jim Baker over as a special envoy. Cut the deal give the Sunnis a tickler area that there are police saying there's in the Shia there. But you still have a federated system. And I think this also reflects where history is. Look at Yugoslavia the former Yugoslavia. You pulled the big dictator off Tito off and you've got what six countries and two Autonomy's regions. And because you had all the waves of history flowing through there and different groups that broke out and when you pull the dictator off you still have these sectarian divisions and that's what's in place in Iraq and I think we just have to recognize it. Couple of follow ups for you senator one you said the military surge is progress. Success some people would say hey the level of violence is still out of control. They don't see a lot of success on the military end. Well certainly we were losing too many troops. I mean to me that's the key measurable for the United States and a number of other factors too but we're losing too many troops and I was just at a deployment

ceremony last week at Fort Riley in Kansas. Twenty eight hundred troops shipping out families all around and you're looking around and saying OK how are we going to get all these young men and women home or not and so it really sticks in your mind. But I really think you've got to look particularly the Sunni area and say yes things have progressed in Baghdad they're not as good as we'd like but they are better. The point of it is I just think you've got to capture the moment where you're in right now and recognize the demographic reality on the ground and move together. And this is a bipartisan proposal on a political surge and the term political surge isn't mine it's Thomas Friedman's New York Times writer. Yes that's really that's what we've got to do. We've got to get it stabilized politically. Could I ask you about the separate the three separate Iraq into three. Sort of federated parts even though it's still a nation I heard Joe Biden talk about this too. What about places like Baghdad where you've got people of all all ethnic

groups all religions Sunnis and Shiites marrying each other. What do you do in those situations. Is this too simple a solution do you get up and throw it. It is not by any means a perfect solution. It's not my favored one. I'd rather just Iraq would operate like United States where we come here from everywhere and people get along. That's not reality. And what you're seeing take place in Baghdad right now and other places even place even groups or people that have been are married. You're seeing them sort out and you're seeing that being done by death squads or by violence that Sunnis are moving more to Sunni neighborhoods or she had a Shia neighborhoods and you're even now seeing more walled communities that's taking place to reduce the violence. So I say let's do it on an organized basis and let's assist it even in places like Baghdad that are divided. And I think that's a way you can start to get this thing to stabilize politically on the ground. And it simply recognizes reality. Tell me a few years back that if you see a straight line border in the Middle East or in

Africa you ought to raise a question about whether it reflects demographic reality. And we're seeing in the modern world. I mentioned Yugoslavia. I think you're going to see the Sudan a place I've been a couple of times break into at least three maybe more countries in the future because it's been two genocides one in the south one now in the West. And you spoke very eloquently about that and had some people who have been victims of that war in Sudan speak in your campaign's behalf and so forth. I have. Because here is the reality you have a south in Sudan that is primarily black and Christian. You've got a north that's primarily Arab and Muslim. And they don't get along and have been two million people killed and the question really is how many people die and how long before you allow it into a separate country South Sudan will vote to succeed I believe in four years. I think you're likely to see that in Darfur which is Muslim but it's black Muslim instead of the Arab Muslims that are leading Khartoum and that is overly

simplified. Really the Khartoum government was started by Osama bin Laden. This government was on its second genocide. It is a militant Islamist organization and group it's backed in many respects by the Chinese. I just think you have to recognize the realities and work at those politically on the ground particularly as we move forward the future. Senator Brownback lots of questions for you about Sudan and Iraq. I also would invite our callers to go 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 1 800 892 and HPR is the phone number. E-mails our exchange it and HPR org. Republican presidential candidate Sam Brownback is with us today in the exchange. He represents Kansas in the U.S. Senate. Couple more questions for you Senator. There was a leaked report last week from the General Accounting Office that said on almost every benchmark three out of 18 set up to measure progress in Iraq. The effort has failed just first. What's your reaction to that. Pretty gloomy assessment of how Iraq is

going. I think it's generally accurate. It reflects my experience of what I've seen and who I've talked with. I've been to Iraq a couple of times. Last time was in January of this year the Sunni and Shia don't agree in the Kurds or in the north just saying you know when you guys figure it out come and talk to us because they're run in their own area which when I continue to mention this three state solution it's allowed for in the Iraqi constitution is it really. Yes because the Kurds have already got their separate state in the north. And so this is something you don't even have to change the constitution of or to do. But I think you're seeing exactly what you probably would expect to see. The Shia are running the country primarily now but they haven't run it for 100 years. The Sunnis have been right and they believe they run it better even though there are 20 percent or less of the population in the country and they think at some point in time they may come back and the Shia think they may come back and they don't trust each other. And so then you get these militias that form or you get your police penetrated by Shia supporters or Sunni supporters I suppose in

some areas. It's it's a mess it's a political mess too. And that's why I think you send a person like Baker with stature with the president. He mentioned the three state solution the Iraq Study Group. Now it was a sidebar one where they said well we have to we'll do this. But you then force the parties the Sunni and Shia and the Kurds to come together on a political solution that they can agree with that we can enforce and start to pull our troops back from the front of that line and start losing fewer of our troops. President Bush as you know made a surprise visit to Iraq just yesterday in the newspaper day while he went there and he pulled together Sunni and Shiite leaders. I think some Kurds were there and kind of presented this as hey look everybody there is some political momentum. So was that enough to convince you that maybe you don't need to go to this three part solution. What he showed was we have some military enforced U.S.

progress that's taking place. And I think and this is significant. You're seeing the Sunni leadership come on board with support to the United States. That's been a significant breakthrough. Is I think long term what you're looking at is probably U.S. military presence for some period of time but likely to be in the Kurdish region and in the Sunni region and probably around Baghdad because the Shia leadership is still very diffuse and they don't trust each other. They haven't come together around common leadership. But you've got a second piece of the puzzle coming in pretty strong now on this on the Sunni side of them saying OK I think we need to have some of the Americans here. I I'm glad to see the stabilize and we're going to start pushing more of the al Qaeda out of the place in Anbar province in Anbar likely example. Yes. And so that's a nice piece of the puzzle coming in place. But also you've got to recognize to the the Iraqis time frame is much longer than our time frame we don't have a world a time here. American public is tired of this war.

They want to see something in place they don't want to lose it but they are not sure we're on a track to win it. That's why I think we've really got to start pushing this political side. And you can do it bipartisan. That's the other side of it. This isn't something that you say OK this is President Bush going to try to ram something else down here this is a bipartisan. BROWNBACK Biden or Biden Brownback proposal and it's got a number of co-sponsors from both sides. One last quick question for you kind of the Washington Post the Iraq war is costing U.S. taxpayers three billion dollars a week. Has it been worth it. The money the lives. Well I mean the money is huge the lives are what's just really get at me. I mean given this political solution remains elusive given all the problems. Is it really is it worth the effort. Well I think at this point in time you have to say yes because we've invested these lives and it's the lives the money is important but it's the lives that are sacred it's the Americans that we have lost over there and Iraqis that have been been killed as

well. But I think that then your answer is well OK. If it's not then let's pull out right now. Then you take all that investment and you just say OK have a big civil war guys and the strongman come out. That's not the solution there and we're within grasp of being able to get the type of political solution I'm talking about. That's what we should see it on through too. Let's go to our colleague Senator Brownback again exchange number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 2. Hill first where Michelle is waiting. Hi Michelle go ahead you're on the Exchange. Good morning. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. Good morning Michele. Good morning Senator Brownback. The London Times reported last week that the Pentagon plans to strike 14:00 sites inside Iran's borders despite an August 30th International Atomic Energy report stating Iran has slowed as regiment and regiment. As a sitting senator what are you going to do to make sure diplomacy has a chance. We don't bomb a sovereign nation. And you know in the June debate here in New Hampshire Rahm is a big issue for the ticket as well. Go ahead and address Michelle's

question. Iran is a big issue it's a big issue from two fronts Michel. One is the nuclear weapons development and it would it would be you could look at that and you could say OK that's a big issue but it is even a bigger issue because of their stated ideology under Khomeini. They stated an ideology to destroy Israel and to attack us. And I've learned in this business you need to take groups at their word and they're developing nuclear weapons and they have missile technology that they've gotten from North Korea. So there's a means to be able to deliver that. But that's not the only thing. What the Pentagon is also talking about I believe and I'm not I'm not I've not read the report you're talking about is the development of IED improvised explosive devices and particularly the higher scaled ones inside Iran and being shipped to Iraq to be used. There are people being trained in Iran as well as soldiers against us in Iraq. So there's two pieces to this and what I think we really need to do right now is to step up our economic

sanctioning towards Iran. I think we need to do it on a multilateral basis. The French I think are good potential allies a number of others are stepping up on Iran on trying to really make it more difficult for them. And and we've got to work on the civil society piece. Inside Iran there's a labor union movement budding in Iran and we can work with them on a solidarity type of way to really I think expose the Iranian regime. I think those are ways to go rather than military but I think we keep the military option on the table particularly towards those areas developing weaponry that are being used in the field against our soldiers today. Those are not nuclear. Those are conventional. Let's say that you're sitting in the Oval Office. It's 2009. There's President Brownback. Did you talk to members of that Iranian regime you personally or other high member high members of the administration.

I don't think so. You don't I don't. This is the lead sponsor of terrorism around the world and we authenticate them by meeting with them plus they're not supported by a huge majority of their own population and they're not freely elected. Ahmadinejad was selected by the ruling is that have a committee on who can run for president. So that would be like me and five other Republicans deciding who can run for president. You know I might love a system like that if I were in power but if I wasn't in power I certainly wouldn't and it's not an authentic election. I think you authenticate them particularly as the lead sponsor of terrorism around the world. It's not just Iran and it's not just Iraq. They're working in southern Lebanon they're working in Malta a whole set of different countries and Iran is the lead sponsor. I don't think you authenticate them or build them up with meeting with them. I think you you talk with them about what they are doing like we've got a multilateral set of discussions taking place around Iraq and we've seen that now which is the

process. And I think we should do that as saying We know you're doing this and if you keep doing this for as far as supplying CDs and military people inside Iraq we're all going to have problems here. Let's go back to the phones. Thanks for the call Michelle in Manchester. Brian's on the exchange. Welcome Brian. Go ahead. How are you doing. I'm doing well Brian and a beautiful day out today. I was just in South Carolina where quite a lot hotter so I'm enjoying the cool weather. OK before I get up before you ask a tough New Hampshire question Mike I'm leaving for Iraq. September 9th. Brian thank you sir. I should have put him in your prayers. I'll do. What's his name. Zachary. I'll do that. Jack retailer is after the president. Anyway here's my tough question. Are you familiar with the School of Americas went out of Fort Benning Georgia. Somewhat. I haven't looked at the I haven't looked at it in several years but I'm familiar with a lot of the graduates have killed. And a lot of damage in the own country. We're training these people to do this. Would you shut it

down as president. You know this has been a perennial issue Senator Brownback. We get this question a lot. I know we do. And I haven't. The reason I mentioned is I've looked at it in the past. I haven't looked at it in the last couple of years. Brian what I'll do is I'll look at that issue again because I thought we got at a lot of what you're talking about here because this particularly happened in Latin American countries and dictatorships. But I need to look at it again. I can't commit to you today that I'm going to shut it down but I can commit to. I'm going to look at it and see more of what issues are going on today that are being train of who's being trained and what they're doing coming out of a school of the Americas. Brian thanks for the call. You know Senator we talked earlier about Iran's nuclear program. We have an e-mail from Mike in Hillsboro who says the U.S. currently maintains at great expense over 10000 nuclear weapons. The current administration has plans to update and extend what he calls the arsenal of death. Will you commit as Senator Edwards has to reduce and eliminate nuclear weapons as an instrument of U.S. foreign policy.

If we can but I'm not going to do it on a unilateral basis or that might subject us to threats from abroad. And I'm going to go off of a lot of advice that people would give in both military and diplomatic regimes. I've worked on these issues for some period of time. I have worked with India and Pakistan with both of them tested as a way of allowing us to be able to lift sanctions. But to be able to build a long term relationship with both India and Pakistan and that that has proven to be a good move because we've needed to work with them. Yet they both tested nuclear weapons. I think this is an issue that I would love to see us get our nuclear arsenal down. But I'm not going to do it in a position that would weaken the United States and that the military leadership would say would substantially weaken the United States. I want to ask you Senator about a cluster of issues sometimes called family values on these matters you've called yourself a compassionate conservative we've heard that before. President Bush used that phrase when he ran it years ago I used the term bleeding heart conservative.

What I really mean to me is somebody that looks at the situation and says we really need to do something here it's somebody that goes to Darfor and says you know look at all these children in refugee camps we've got to do something here that I've spent nights in prison of my own volition. I've not been convicted of anything. You can look in the record but I've I've spent nights and in prison I've spent nights in homeless shelters and you meet people there and you see them when you going wow these are folks that have had very difficult circumstances. They have done a lot of bad things too and they deserve a punishment that they're getting but also we get 600000 people out of jail a year and then two thirds of them back up in jail. So this system isn't working. And what can we do to change that to reduce that recidivism rate. That's what I talk about. Being a bleeding heart conservative because I think we ought to take on issues like that and issues like poverty. Now you take him on from a market based view you take him on

from a faith based system but I've put forward proposals we just got the second chance act passed through Judiciary Committee this before the break of really trying to target reducing recidivism rates 50 percent in five years. And this will help the country and it will work with people that really got a big set of problems that they have in their lives. Fix it a problem such as give us an example. You said you spend time with people drugs alcohol broken families broken relationships many people that get in these situations just don't have any infrastructure around them anymore. You know and they've gotten in trouble here and so this family member says you know I'll get out of my life or I've gotten in trouble here and there's this set of friends says get out of my life. And they end up they're just they they don't have much infrastructure in what they can find hasn't been very helpful to them and they need somebody else to invest in their lives. Laura they need you they need they need somebody if they need me to invest in their lives and say you know what

we all got problems but I'm going to work with you. And much of this program on reducing recidivism rates the ones that have really worked a lot of it's relationship building it's from people outside of government and somebody going into the president says you know I know you got a lot of problems here I've got problems but we're going to work on these next time when you get out and you've got a problem don't go back into the same destructive behavior you have come to me. Let's talk about start work I mean a lot of faith based groups that are reaching out to individuals but they work and they've cut these recidivism rates below 10 percent. How is this broader focus Senator Brownback different from the traditional conservative message. I think the traditional conservative message was say you broke a law you're going to jail you. You do the crime you do the time which I believe in. But at some point in time people come out and that's why I say you've got to work with this individual or on poverty issues. Some might say well you know you need to work harder yourself.

And I think people do but a lot of individuals have chains in bondages they can't break by themselves. And I don't think government is necessarily the answer either. But it is us individually getting more engaged. I think government can encourage that. Coming up after a break we're going to get a little personal biography of Senator Brownback growing up on a Kansas farm his early involvement in politics. Also why he's not going along with his party's base when it comes to immigration. Stay with us. This is the exchange on NAHB. Support for New Hampshire Public Radio comes from our members and from Dana as bean and company certified public accountant reinventing business for over fifty nine years. By helping shape entrepreneurs ideas into implemented transactions 800 5 8 5 2 0 8 8 from time USA in Lyme New Hampshire supplying H.S. tarm high efficiency wood in wood pellet heating systems for homes and businesses online it would boiler's dotcom and Kimbal Jenkins school of art in Concord accepting registration for fall art

classes for children teens and adults space limited. Details at 2 2 5 3 9 3 2 or Kimbal Jenkins com. More with Republican presidential candidate Sam Brownback on the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio. Then at 10:00 on the Diane Rehm Show a look at the fall congressional agenda. This is New Hampshire Public Radio. This is the exchange I'm Laura Conaway. Tomorrow on the exchange Republican presidential candidate and Colorado Congressman Tom Tancredo is here. Find out more at our Web site and HPI. Join us tomorrow morning live at 9:00. Today we're talking with Sam Brownback a candidate for the Republican presidential nomination the U.S. senator from Kansas. The exchange number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. The e-mail is in HPR org. Senator Brownback I want to take just a few minutes out of Iraq and recidivism and so forth and get a little

personal biography. New Hampshire voters just getting to know you. First of all you often mention when you talk about yourself that you grew up on a Kansas farm. No I did. What was that like and how did that shape your political values. It was fabulous although at the time I thought I was being abused as a child working every day I started driving the tractor at a very young age and having to do chores all the time and my friends were messing around or playing baseball. But it was just a fabulous place to grow. My family had four children. I was third of the group. It was my dad started the farm from his grand from his dad my granddad and we farmed with him for a number of years. It was wheat corn soybeans cattle and hogs chickens. You know I just it was a perfect setting. It really taught me values. We went to Sunday school on Sunday and just a kind of a basic set of values that you need to work. You need strong families you need faith

and together you can work these these things through. And by the way people have this fight about whether it takes a family or a village to raise a child. My wife and I have five children and we've married 25 years. It takes every responsible adult you can get per child. I've heard you say that but that I just think it's a silly debate because I will take every one we can get and do and try to get as many people in relationships with our with our children. Well let us in on those sort of dinner conversations that that Kansas farm years and years ago. Senator Brownback I mean do you remember people talking about politics or was it more just bread and butter How are we going to you know feed the chickens and take care of the cows. Yeah it wasn't much in politics other than it was international politics. Yeah. Because our markets were dependent upon what happened in the Soviet Union and Brazil. So when the radio or the markets the foreign markets came on at noon everybody had to quiet down because we got to hear what these are because this is where the paycheck is coming from. And a lot of it reflected whatever happened in the Soviet Union because

they were a major grain buyer because their system was so terrible under communism that it didn't allow productivity or expansion of the Brazilian soybean farming operations that was hurting our soybean prices or if there were things going on in Japan it really you know I'm from a farm of 250 people south of Kansas City right in the middle of the country and you're really tuned in as much as anything to what's happening on global politics because it directly affects your markets. Well I never thought about that. How did that shape your today as a U.S. senator. Your feelings on trade policies and whether we should have trade pacts like the WTO NAFTA and so forth. It made me made me somebody that really looked internationally and watched. I'm a I am pro free trade. I do think you've got to enforce the rules. And that's why on China I would use tariffs for them to really force them to to guarantee and to respect international intellectual property rights and to allow their currency to float. That's been a big problem with the Chinese that they won't allow that. But it's

it made me really supportive of trade that we need this we need this for an expansion we also need this and I believe we can compete as long as the field is level. A couple more questions just about you personally Senator Brownback. I read that your classmates when you were a kid called you Governor that an early interest in pulling out there and making fun of me more than the political leadership of the early age I don't remember doing that. I just it was a great small town atmosphere and so you had to do everything. So I played for the high school played football basketball on track and I was both the quarterback and a linebacker for our football team to show you how valuable I was as a quarterback. They would get in on the defense we need defense to as we only had 20 guys that went out for football and so we couldn't scrimmage quite effectively with 11 man football teams but it was just it was a wonderful atmosphere for everybody to participate and to get to get involved and there was no real.

I don't say any divisions amongst various students. It was just all one basic community. You got involved though in politics pretty early. You've got some sort of a fellowship right. You went to Washington a White House fellow in the first Bush administration. Prince Yeah yeah I don't remember quite how old I was then it was 1991 I was in the trade field prior to that I had practiced law I'd worked radio a public radio station in Kansas and was also I taught agricultural law that was my specialty area and was secretary of agriculture secretary of state Kansas. What drew you to politics. When I was a state President future farmers of America. I was 18. I met a congressman they didn't they didn't come to a park or where I was from because there's 250 people so nobody nobody came in. Plus you don't go through park or you go to Parker. You got to be meaning to get there. And I met a congressman Joe Scooba from my 5th District in Kansas and I thought that's a

great job. I wonder how you get work like that. And it really stirred an interest for me at that time in politics and getting involved in the political system is a way to be able to serve and I really looked at that admired that and thought that was something I'd really like to do. Well when you say that's a great job. I wonder how I can get a job like that. What made it seem like a great job. I mean one would've thought that you would have become a farmer. You're so involved with issues and so forth. I wanted to. But you know dad said there's just not room here on the farm to be able to do it. And it's a great gift that he gave me because it was the early 80s we were just going into the farm crisis and if I had to join the farm then we had expanded on debt and I would have probably driven the operation into bankruptcy had we had we done that. So it was it was it was a gift that he gave me. So he literally said you can't do this. You didn't say you can't said I'm not going to help you and I'm still active today.

Yeah dad still farms and mom and dad my younger brother did join in and this was I went back to him after I'd finished college and my younger brother was in with my dad at that time and that's when he was just saying well I don't have enough air to feed feed everybody. I got a couple more sort of biographical questions for you Senator Brownback and then we'll get back into the issues. Back with our callers. Your faith is very important to you. You talk about it all the time as you campaign. You converted from the Methodist Church to the Catholic Church just a couple of years ago. How come. Well I think faith is important as a nation. Our motto as a nation is in God we trust. I think the early founders Roy looked at it and had this notion of a of a maximum liberty population. We're going to give as many rights to the individual and as few to the state. But they looked at it and they were saying as well how are we going to get governance here if you really limit the state of maximum liberty to the individual that's where we think people can flower. And they looked at it and they

said well we think they're going to do personal governance a personal guidance. And to me I think that's a key role of faith as a personal governance system within an individual so I think it's important as an individual I think it's important as a country. And I think it's a beautiful thing. I've met people like Mother Teresa who served millions of little less than five foot high body who died 10 years ago tomorrow. You suffered certainly before she died shortly before and before. But the power in her was her faith and it was extraordinary. And it was an extraordinary faith. And if you read in some of the recent articles which doubt she struggled with her whole life which I find just that much more extraordinary. But I talk about a law because I think it's a key part and I had melanoma 11 years ago. It was a great chance to really examine the end of life. And it was a simple cancer and we call it an excise. And

everything was fine. But mentally it was a real real jolt to me. It makes you sit up and think isn't dead and I wasn't happy with where I was going with my life because I was I was really pursuing power. And I'm going to do good with it but it's me that's going to have it instead of what do you do to help others. And will this change your own conversion now. I mean it's interesting again that you converted from the Methodist Church to the Catholic Church. What does that mean to you. I felt a deep calling to do it. And it was it was a personal calling. I had met people like my other troops I'd met Pope John Paul was a great admirer of them. A lot of people of faith. I my family did not join me in doing this. So on Sunday mornings I regularly will go to Mass and then go to an evangelical church with my family. And so your wife and kids go to one church and you go to another. Yes. Why go with them. I go with them. And so I attend mass and then join in. I think I've got the best Sunday mornings in the world. They're busy.

Well it is. But then I get the mass and then I get the preaching and singing of an evangelical church and the passion with it it's just a gorgeous gorgeous thing. So I think faith is a beautiful thing. It's searching for something beyond ourselves. It's the most noble thing we can do. Senator Brownback Let's get back to our callers again the number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Our email is exchange at HPI dot org. Republican presidential candidate Sam Brownback is with us since 96 he's represented Kansas in the U.S. Senate to Goffstown where Beverley's been waiting. Hi Beverly go ahead you're on the exchange. Hi thanks for taking my call. Sure. All right Beverly good morning. I am hearing you loud and clear on your compassionate conservatism and also being pro-life and I worked for a person's candidacy years ago who was pro-life and also pro planet. So I just kind of wanted to talk about that with you just a little bit.

I'm concerned about climate change. I'm concerned that the vast majority of scientists in the world feel that it's almost too late for us to start doing anything about climate change. And this administration has advocated volunteer efforts but not any mandatory calls for greenhouse gas emissions or curtailing well you're just creating creating better more efficient automobiles. OK. Well let's talk about global warming Senator Brownback go ahead and you know interestingly some evangelical churches have now signed on to combating global warming as well. The idea that this is the planet that God expects us to take care of. God I was visiting with a gentleman last night that would fit that description was advocating the very thing I think we have to take the CO2 issues very seriously. And you look at the science of it clearly we've got global warming that's taking place that the climate is warming. Clearly you have a CO2 loading that's taking place in the economy. You know carbon dioxide floating in the atmosphere it's

getting at the models it appears like our our moon there. They've got a range that they project of what happens. But under any scenario I think what it would be very prudent for us and the right thing to do to reduce the CO2 loading in the atmosphere. So how do you do that how would Sam Brownback the president supporting the Beverley's going at the right point here. Do you regulate it. Do you do cap and trade type system or do you try to just incentivize in a marketplace. I believe free people properly marked properly motivated are the way that you answer a problem like this. So I want to incentivize a marketplace to do this. But I hope she doesn't hear that saying well OK then you're not going to do anything. No that's not the case. Is that getting people off the hook. I put in Bill's bipartisan bills. I will push them aggressively as president to get more electricity involved in the car fleet. You'll see the first wave of cars out in two years may be the year that you plug in the first 20 to 30 miles off of electricity rather than off of gasoline. That will

reduce the CO2 loading taking place in the atmosphere and we put forward tax credits for a person to buy it and for a company to make them as well. I think you've also got to see more nuclear power generation taking place more wind taking place more ethanol particularly cellulosic ethanol. The grass the gas type of concepts that you're seeing now coming out onto the marketplace as well. And then another one and this is a bit of a different one for most people I think we should use tax credits to incentivize the replanning of major forest. I've been in Brazil in the Atlantic rain forest region Nature Conservancy's buying back with us corporate sponsors major tracts of land and let it go back to trees. A tree is a big carbon sink. We need a lot more of them and we love that here in New Hampshire because we've got tons of trees. Second most forest is state in the nation I think and in my state we appreciate trees one at a time. You know we just don't get me in my state but I want to see a lot more of. One more question following up on Beverly though. Senator Brownback you talked about incentives as you

know some people would rather see strict regulations. I remember covering a press conference when Bill Clinton was president this is when I was still working in D.C. It was Bill Clinton and the big three automakers. So how far back is that at least 10 or 12 years. Not more like 12 or 14 and they were all saying OK we're announcing incentives we're all going to you know create better gas mileage and so forth and we're going to do this we're going to create the cars of the future that was at least 13 or 14 years ago. Nothing has happened. The question is are incentives really enough. Well given the scope of this giant problem that we could face I would contend that some things have happened. Now you've got a shift in public opinion and in markets we've got two hybrid cars in my family beautiful. Technology really matters how you drive it. I mean I can get 40 plus out of one of ours and my 17 year old daughter does mid 30s on it. So I mean it matters how you drive it but those things are really coming on the marketplace and what if we incentivized with a tax credit somebody to be able to buy a plug in car.

How many would you sell around New Hampshire. I mean people would buy these things and they're buying them. I look at the Prius and how many of those of salt. I think you've got a fundamental shift shift in how the public views this issue and where they're willing to put their dollars. And one more question our caller linked caring for the environment to her pro-life position. Given that you are pro-life What is your stance on the death penalty as I understand the Catholic Church is against the death penalty. Yes. My position is I'm opposed other than in cases where we cannot protect the public from the individual. When Osama bin Laden is caught I don't think we can protect the public from Osama bin Laden as long as he's alive. And there I think the death penalty would be meritorious but otherwise I don't support it because I think there's real debate and questions about. You're talking about somebody who committed a heinous crime and subjecting them to the death penalty. This is not an innocent life that you're talking about. But if we as a culture are trying to teach a culture of

life which I believe we should I believe we should talk about life being sacred at all stages in all places. I think it's tough to teach it when the state uses the use as a means of death to enforce certain provisions. I would allow it in cases where we cannot protect the public. Has that hurt your position with the Republican base that you oppose in most cases the death penalty. I haven't seen it particularly do that. And plus if you played a clip earlier I talked about being pro-life and whole life that's a bit different of a cut on the pro-life message. And so people really have to digest it for a while but I find it one that is appealing to a much broader cross-section of the public and particular to a younger population. Young people look at that and say that that's exactly what I believe. I believe a child the womb sacred I believe the child in Darfur is sacred. And I think we should have a government that really tries to make protect each. Let's go to a call right here in Concord. Senator Brownback good Sandra. Good morning Sandra you on the exchange. Thanks for waiting.

Thank you. I recently retired. I'm a health care voter by the way. I recently retired after and I've worked a total of 47 years in the system. And then I found out that through Medicare I am not entitled to a physical I'm not entitled to I care I'm not entitled to getting a percentage off my glasses. God forbid I should break them. I started out with three insurances each. My husband and I have to pay for through Medicare and we're still not covered for everything and then we get into the ever popular part D part D as you know has a huge gap. This is my question. The doughnut hole sander right. Is that I as I told Senator Edwards. It's a bagel hole it's much bigger than I don't know how that's that's a good description so what's your question Sandra. My question is this. I am down to $625 a month after I pay for this insurance it's my catastrophic drug. It's twenty eight hundred dollars a month. Under that gap I'm only going to only get pay like a month and a half and then I'm on my own basically. Senator if you can tell me how to get twenty eight hundred of

625 Honey you need to be a mathematician not a politician. All right Sandra thanks for that call. And lots are avoiding your plan or do hours and hours on health care but give us your best answer on this. You know the part D. There is the doughnut hole. I would say part D is also helped. Most Americans are on Medicare to reduce their drug bills substantially and I recognize the doughnut hole in the doughnut hole is there or as you point out a bagel hole with that. There's a number of right and center you probably looked at this but a number of other maybe options for you. One of the things that has been difficult for people is there's been so many options in Medicare particularly on the part D that people are looking at saying I'm a bit confused maybe there are other places that you ought to be looking that that can fit you a little bit better. Plus and I want to throw this one out. Probably it doesn't fit Sandra but I want to put it out as a thought because we're having the big problem and people that are uninsured. Most people in the United

States are satisfied with their health care. They think it's too expensive. And then we have a big problem. We've got 47 million. The numbers just gone up. People that are uninsured and that are saying OK now that's the one we really got to get at. And I think we have to. The question then is do you go with more government or more markets to try to solve that. And you're saying virtually all the Democratic candidates saying we need a government run solution to do this. I've not seen anywhere in our country where you get more government involved you will get better services like we need more markets and here's where I push health savings accounts get. You can save the money tax exempt and then buy a high deductible insurance policy that has a lower Preem premium one in three people that are getting HSA now are currently uninsured. Second and I think this is a big one. It's a tough one. I think we really need to allow people to buy health insurance across state lines. So if they find a cheaper plan that's in Massachusetts or Kansas or California. Great God bless you. Go find it and get it as a way of getting more competition in the system.

Plus I'm supporting bills where independent medical record banking you have your own medical records. You're not a captive of a particular place. And Medicare disclosing by zip code what they reimburse hospitals and doctors for for major surgeries for people can price shop chop some too. Getting back to specifically the plan D. Couple of follow ups for you Senator. First of all did you vote for the plan D when it came up. It was three years ago because I know some conservatives had a problem with this. They said hey this is a huge expansion of federal government. It is. But I did. Because if you were creating Medicare at that point in time there's no way you would leave pharmaceuticals out of the equation because it's such a big part of the system now. That's what a third of it. And they're expensive but they're also keeping people alive and keeping them out of the hospital and they're keeping them healthier. I mean I I looked at that saying well that's really a complete part of the package. But we're going to continue to have big health care debates because it's such a growing part

of the economy and we've got to find ways to get better service and to hold the prices down. I have another question for you and this goes back to us talking about them the cluster of issues often called family values you're talking about pro-life whole life after the Republican Party's 0 6 loss some analysts suggested that the party went too far on the social values theme that Americans felt turned off by what they felt was a negative message an anti message aimed at certain groups of people like gays or people who feel abortion should be legal. Is it possible for you Senator Brownback to go too far with family values maybe you win the nomination for the Republicans but you can't win in a general because you're too conservative. The polling numbers show that why we lost 2006 was was primarily the war spending. You had a demoralized Republican base because way too much federal spending and the war was gone from then.

Right. Three four weeks for the election. The vice president says we're going to stay the course. And I think the country said well you guys aren't listening to us. We don't think this is the right course to go on. And if he has said instead we're going to try to track tack a new course on it. It would have been a I think those two different the spending is a key piece of it. We haven't talked about that. I think you've got to change the spending system. I've been in Congress since 1994. I have yet to have a single person from my state come into my office and say we're getting too much federal money would you please cut it. I don't ever hear that. The system's built to spend so I'm putting forward. Let's create a commission annual reports to Congress on wasteful government spending and then require a vote of Congress on the package. Eliminate all programs that are identified under that keep them all deal no deal and then use those funds for the programs that you want to do. Now I want to end deaths by cancer in 10 years. Lance Armstrong for putting forward how we could do that of life more access to Tier 1

drugs and getting more testing. I'd like to see us take on some big American sized goals but you can't do them with the current spending that were in place and you get these things locked into place. There's there's nothing so permanent as a temporary government program as Ronald Reagan would say you've got to be able to change that spending system. That was those two were the biggest parts of 2006. So how can a socially conservative guy like you appeal to a broad American public where people share or have an array of views a huge array of views and a public where according to polls that I've been reading is kind of leaning more democratic like you do it the way Ronald Reagan did it. He was both an economic and a social conservative. You do it by talking hopefully about America. I think that the candidate the party that offers the most hope realistic ideas for the future wins. And plus way I talk about these things I pro-life and whole life really

draws more people into it. And the issue of family I talk about the need to rebuild the family structure in the country and there's there's hardly an individual I think in the country that would oppose that. Now they want to know the details of what are you really talking about here. But most would agree that you know we're at 36 percent of our children born out of wedlock. Washington D.C. It's 55 percent in most inner cities. It's 60 percent. That this is too high you can raise a good child and a single parent family or you can have terrible children coming out of a two parent stable family. But your bigger numbers are basically you want to have as many children as possible raised in a stable a setting as possible. Well Senator Brownback I have to ask you one raw political question you have good question. Most Democratic candidates as you know have signed on to a promise not to campaign in states that have attempted to bump Iowa New Hampshire Nevada South Carolina I'm talking especially about Florida and Michigan. Are Republicans contemplating a similar pledge and if so would you sign on to it.

I think some are and I wouldn't because the front three are set because they are the front three states Iowa New Hampshire and South Carolina and this has been the traditional road that people have traveled through get in the race in Iowa stay in New Hampshire win it in South Carolina. Some variation of that in the country trust that and I think it's going to continue to work this time. And last question how are you doing so far in New Hampshire. Well we're just really getting organized here. I was you know kind of in the crowd for a while and then the Ames Iowa helped bring bring me forward and now I'm really getting people looking at me and we're going to be building grassroots organization here like we have in Iowa like we are in South Carolina we're going to build it here. I think we'll do well we'll come back because we didn't even scratch immigration we barely touched on family values and we haven't talked about Social Security which I know was a big issue for you. It's a comeback we'll be watching the debate tomorrow night. Thank you Laura. Thank you very much. Presidential candidate and Kansas Senator Sam Brownback he's a Republican representing Kansas in the Senate since

1996. The exchange is a production of new Hampshire Public Radio. The producers Ty Fraley The engineer Dan Colgan. Our theme music was composed by Bob Lord Exchange's executive producer Keith shields and I'm Laura