1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-06-06; Part 4 of 5

it's b thank you yes sir and there's did you think it was necessary oh yeah

and there's a tremendous oh really there was a major problem in my judgment that he when i began to try to get specific after details are probably an area of money i think he interpreted of my concerns are being crucial concerns which i did have a squirrel and suggested to me that since i work at the white house hasn't had a special relationship with a white house by

personal problems he declared to arrange a lawyer for me or c that i am a lawyer with regard to his hearing any further information as far as he was concerned they didn't want to know the details at his position personally would be to take executive privilege on this matter until after the election is that there should be an investigation thank you besides its investigation mr

how are you the militia the nevada oh i'll call an invasion would think of his role somewhat common because of la it's a modest report maybe you had a conversation with mr robert martino that they that the political ideas are and i'll give you don't question that he has succeeded on behalf of the committee

it was to investigate a murder do you when you met him i think at that point i just completed a summary report the day before i think it in a very precise figure out i did you know in misery oh you are

you interviewed oh yeah that same day same in the us and you went up and that suggests to you that you have people down there mr duhigg yeah it's a

conversation the next morning he would need to win if you're going to make a living you know a piece of history you're

welcome the concern about the manager at a restaurant in information that we're supposed to do my personal cells have been subpoenaed that's a day in response to my concerns they had not the entire financial system my son to consider a threat to give them time to confront the officials would say that given the lack of that didn't identify different thank you yes you do i

just another call center of it certainly was in the context i think of grand jury appearances you didn't want a metal ruler nobody else about that time that you've that have the wealthier than the opt out the racial questions that they get anything like that notion for you you're on a couple of the region's other was obtaining which time to confront the officials at the committee my information was nude they want to confront the committee officials who presumably had given them different information oh no and

thank you will no sir i don't think he did advise me to commit perjury i think the emphasis in that conversation was he lying to me that i had campaigned all problems and i shoot very well consider the option of taking the fifth amendment the decisions in sinai when the conservatives at the moment but i will also not consider perjury that i had every intention of telling the truth a final duet that thank you not a malaysian any particular proceeding but very early on that first week he had suggested to me that the amount and i think it kind of the gentle magnitude would be very politically sensitive and damaging and that there was a need to come in with a lesser thing

your your grill grahams at the meeting that don't know about a milestone now if you give them as the lead at all of the government by the time of the watergate meeting at lunch and i do not believe we're at that point we were talking about belief that you're a blogger i think he was talking about the fifth amendment to deny any information on the subject area utility would not take effect why i believe that when i did not considered as i understood that i would you know i would want to have a private supper council before i made that decision to go but real estate

conversations yes you do political leadership without mentioning names are only suggested that i talked to secretary stands that he would let me know what people thought when she never did you did this ambiguity estimate is that moment on free talk to investigators and federal bureau and it doesn't come in a following that interview i knew that you know it was the fourteenth of kilometre what did we get

now you owe me out all about what you owe this or that was the only subject matter they covered with me in one interview i had with him prior to leaving you're welcome you know on the fourteenth oh no

utah about that and given mr liggett yes you told him about the efforts on the part of this movement that's others of eighty seven and they are they live about the usual commitment and you say it all a writer everything that you've told this committee today police are for the navy's to amplify new information develops incentives that that's my recollection and then the essential facts are heavier and prayers really really well

we create about them you're welcome and when you go up a song mr silbert on two occasions part of a grand jury my journeys on and one i think there's also a third time just prior to appearing before the grand jury and testify before the grand jury and july thirty for human rights lawyer now representing the prosecution to testify and naturalist and a question

mr silbert and mr campbell and others to question its a big questions about the late december that interesting question tomorrow yes sir i would say they are roughly an hour's time i spent before the grand jury i would say that half of that time roughly was devoted to the mcgregor approach today probably yes any question you

or because of it i don't know or you know you're welcome niger

you have a conversation with guns had one conversation with jaunty myself not specifically with regard to trial but in terms of the expedition where is that all right

mr jihad call him mo and indicated it would be a real hero over here for an education are you about the system no explanation to testify yesterday and he also expedition he expressed the hope that by attorneys were two years in the final bill is whether that you should give the select committee on presidential campaign that there has to be that you are you

at all you know i do that bill will do and though the festival law center's scenic october thirty first of all our listeners from johnny rocco used to be called i'm ok in order to get money as a matter of fact mr dean i just missed it was just about a half an hour before the call the call to discuss

the case very briefly with me he said are you prepared to take the fifth amendment on what has now taken in the context of the events of that are to invoke the fifth amendment on that kind of case knowing he's known his idea knowing what it had as sledge hammers it just was so a place an inappropriate to pursue the matter and said oh you could be a real hero around here if he took the fifth relax you is with the huge donor this case has absolutely nothing to do with the watergate just have to

cases come up involving one of the participants in the watergate is going to draw a lot of publicity and attention and i believe that time and he was reacting in terms of public relations considerations rather than legal analysis of the case i did make a promise to you and gene steiner national airport and at eastern airlines counter it so i'm going to try to get them and with about fifteen years before that michael sullivan it's the

prison humans do never suggested anything to me you relate to me in a telephone conversation the fact that an individual whom he refused to maintain friendly political committee yesterday at the company's office with a suggestion that he has with her nuns friendship with need to pressure me to take the fifth amendment e i understand the debate that conversation and the friendship he told me that he sensed a gentleman who ever it was that he would in no way

anybody in my position mr johnson certainly there were various cases of all you are some official i decided just an impression was a a staff member of the political committee you wouldn't know it he called me just to let me know the fact that someone approached him with that was regular me the pressures might be recruited

thank you polls information diseases like and jesus lady

a sensor happen here center for message mexico meant the night of april third they were i had no knowledge of whether there are even legal whether they could be accepted into the campaign we were so busy in that period of time i essentially set aside any problem there to get through this transition period when i probably sometime during the following week by myself problem areas this is and i'm just curious thank you and he said he would he reached

into his we can do janine dmv yes sir given that the people in different places in the country and it takes a lot of taxes last question and there were explosives involving every new detail break down that one time was an accomplished fact i sent a boat awkwardly titled secretary stands

that have been short which rose came back that sure it serves a very large state for years i didn't receive that internet world of dollars that went into this state where the fund then what i suspect probably happened that some of those same physical hundred dollar bills he's a million dollars do you think that is time wise i think it must have been part of the two twelve thousand dollars versus distribution site made to him in late may or even a

region by the way on this divisiveness beans if you tell a committee about that before this today the us we've been told is that that was fun to work in the white house before you went to the committee to reelect its fortunately work how to half years and jeans and i wouldn't say that i started regularly it was at a different level than they were a most of the work went through somebody else put out a survey and a friendly working relationship with

only twenty thousand of them and to mr mcgrew there we just think most expansive approval among i really dont precisely recall a i think that i accepted that on its own authority since he was in a position to give blanket authority other innovations in with an employee you do not usable i have no direct knowledge i just by rumor there that it went to pay for a book by mr victor lustig and we can reason i'm aware that it's there i was talking to mr ben schumann wanted a spokesman for the committee for the reelection of the president at a time he had a pressing in korea to the fact that mr lansky had identified the committee for the reelection of the president as a source of money for a book he had written and that eventually as the weather that with the twenty thousand dollars it and i said i did not actually i think it was

i'm curious how many people are really interested in specifically requested to consider a trip was the occasional going to california and this was a request while mr parkinson mr o'brien oh i said they obviously could not essentially the reason information i was giving them for the first time i was like that's occasional telephone conversation with the mystery that night he emphasized the urgency upon our

own weren't you curious about what was going to be used for after having been through i'm sensing two years in his campaign workers are very clear separation a decision as to what monies used for resting with a political campaigner i think my curiosity really got out so much money in a similar way i've been distributed by name without knowledge is beyond the point of really asking what did you have to do any you know a lot of this was not you just have to talk to

us it is essentially was after i left the committee three time times did you talk to him you know when you evicted in earlier periods with regard to advice on the campaign will dig it or corrupt practices act prior to the time we had a full time counsel with our committee i don't believe i had any of those regular contact with him other than that context while i was happy finance committee when i left i saw the day i resigned and after i retained counsel or retained counsel because the satanic unsettled her time in my car that was parked right away so much a white house had been

towed away serve a frustrating day that my partner to nato is a guy that they lived beyond the four thirty in my car had disappeared on my resignation the point is the point so yeah as for combat and maurice tens of essentially would call me every week or so on the outgoing and they could temper the waters honestly

give us a little more about these conversations i really gets and the more expansive vision as bison some of the civil litigation do about this after ramadan remember specifics he's been calling him how i would call him up at that point i understood he was handling within the white house investigation of his drivers aren't given the same information i give everybody else with regard to the money in the undergrowth conversations he generally would not that in my

judgment was that he was not seeking information from it with regard to what happened after i resigned and the money and the report iran to force it on a moments on one data services that's what i want a conversation about mr mcgrew is continuing on i said i think it's a massive then later after they are not sure of the exact time but i expressed a few independent i felt so strongly about their what mr mcgregor had been somewhat what it suggested that what he had forced on me in with a personal decision and that the very nature of the suggestion that i express that thought that it was never ever were presented before a senate committee for confirmation for a high public office that i would that will never happen

you say you have nurtures and i think it might come up to three weeks before the period leading up to the trial this is from july nineteen seventy two until january nineteen seventy three and then when he made these conversations because he was in charge of a white house investigation watergate investigation went much more resonant was yeah i was it was barbara that prince has offered to assist me in seeking private employment we discuss why going to law school to pay suggests i see john john had made suggestions generally of this kind of a conversation when you discussed are the chairman than a

fifth amendment advice of lawyers testimony of a grand jury of his committee's nasa has ever given any legal advice and that got these conversations did he ever mentioning president adds that there also it was you didn't go off on it would just rather committee which will i forget where senators things was i couldn't join up until that sunday night that was a meeting on the california budget is a pig sen kerry

stopped in the middle of this questioning allow committee members to vote on a farm bill amend the amendment that is now on the senate floor obviously nothing to do with watergate public television's coverage of the watergate hearings will continue after this fall for station identification on average coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of pbs a public broadcasting service the pain it's

been from washington and that continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities it again correspondent jim lehrer the senate has just rejected

an amendment by senator hubert humphrey that would require the federal government to maintain reserves of feed grains and now senator bernie reason or reasons his questioning abuse law there's been disagreement is between iraqis sunday evening foreign secretary discussions

to incorporate in the fifties what was a to do the job well you and discussions were minimum the committee director washington area when we have we should explain

mr mitchell i was planning to make a ruling in his view is i love about these general financial matters particularly about a fifty thousand dollars contribution the reporter wrote in a post episode for which there was no indication that the lord oh it was during this conversation that i had a call from my secretary indicated to join the euro we're doing here three minutes peter gammons mitchell's officer with martin was there myself possibly can as martin suggests the

first and it was that love this is when you press them to deal with the modern was the first person to sell it you're wrong what's going on some talk about financial matter of hoping for some enlightenment or somebody has a lot of journalists or something of that sort are instead i got the market mr michaels and anything that was right through it

is i think did not understand what he meant mr hinman yeah no no a major presence in any meaningful way ms jenkins the meetings i

believe with the passage of time and not really reduce the nature of the way i express the concern speaking responsibilities i'm scott simon visit us i'm just not sure i suspect center at that time i was i would probably have been very reluctant to make any specific accusations in terms of the feeling or anybody else i think i was attempting to digital information of a health problem whether it's somebody who is really

talented and kissinger's there was a period of time let's just say in german olano material or personal theory with regard to the situation i found myself just in that reconstruct my own thinking or what i would've invaded time and again harriet was an indication these

meetings the president nixon and a bottle of president is that when anybody over watergate or live so it is extraordinary why didn't you keep a record of a sudden my understanding of secretary stands as instruction and i think that has to be put somewhere in the context of what was happening here we had a number of different kinds of records decision been made to remove all the pre april seventh records from the committee as a part of the question was constructing the kind of records for internal news that we would not have available to us as an alien a

fundraiser hosted a century you are after and then for utah meaning fifty thousand dollars he's eighty two april fifth and sixty characters in a usable this consisted of a catch someone on one side and on the other paper listing of law considers a thousand article by how important category one might've been all about two hundred and fifty thousand dollars at a party like a hundred thousand over it so that what was being requested was either a single copy or two copies to be tightly held of this kind of information and a request in the

navy by sectors don't was a symbol copy of this final report it in destroying the backup material it did so with a clearer understanding of to me by him that he intended to cover design transactions a sense in a different form as they can one copy in his possession we recommend a conversation he remembers you know

he was going through between those things the physical security of the money i was a woman and a distribution system every decision was made by

somebody else with the garden centers cruz as a company but there was clearly my responsibility in terms of preserving the physical security and a record was receiving national right decision by caught up i would have to make an assumption here this

procedure of all time because i do the officers this is to my mouth we don't need that macho wanted to deposit a hundred thousand dollars or three thousand dollars and a report that about fallen truck wow when he said the us is too much rebounded this much what the thinking in the market who is keeping in cash for now he was ninety nine but you

know it was me yes and i think about it because i was you know i got the initial instructions on who should be the signatories on a safe deposit box and the procedure more than access to before now you just continue contacts that decision was made yes i never maybe that's my recollection and it was about these funds without having had instructions from him in terms of distribution that would've been one of those people we've discussed throughout authority him that i recognized their authority to make this decision

oh yeah i'm less than going after them except in the nine eleven who had looked at it differently at different times that initially prime minister kan that i myself or two thousand dollars to have the girls in our office within the other to really take any two three at a later date they were aware of a lot of work downstairs in the building where we're located here in a later time well mr francis writing from california with one institution who used to writing our identity was a signatory one of ours no

nursery did not fully worked up my first meeting with this terrain was an ugly sometime in february of nineteen seventy two when he transmitted to washington on behalf of his to come back seven hundred thousand dollars in cash which represented me as being they carry over in nineteen sixty fives and i think we have a new season of a separate safe deposit box that one we already had for those funds you know well this is death made in places that point on that mr combat still very active as a fundraiser at one point in march what happened and the writers

that was taken out pages i'm steve inskeep yes sir i've forgotten center precise statement that the procedural handling attachments saying throughout i kept that passion in a recording of receipts and distribution so that don't like wherever this is the regulations

ok what was it a combination of my secretary jewell when the chamber's of secretary stanton i'm really committed to real a person you see most transactions are union within the continental us he was going to say

this is awesome what david david not too often in business at all i'm not the only time i joined the committee until sunset on the world it is he

says i want to want you upon this information it wasn't my intention has been the