1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-23; Part 4 of 4

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b i was to be released on my name it could indicate that i had approved plans ready for instance of all i regret that at the time but as mr dean has indicated it was a fairly common practice in the white house for example right now i assume responsibility for authorizing the fbi investigation i'm sure mr colson assume the responsibility for the nineteen seventies back at a year of those were true but that was a statement that was put out that said every time that you order so all of us not there was no pending body where i would take you know to make a statement

and in fact when i eventually was asked that particular question before the grand jury on april eleventh who approved the hiring and ultimately i answered mr holland and services was times where you're maintaining the best of these memory yes i think it's probably a mistake more describe it is that the puritans last three people in the meeting i remember the context of the discussion i regret having made that statement but the white house that there was an overwhelming demand really inappropriate sense of loyalty the committee will stand in recess until he returned as the committee process for a vote on the senate floor and one hundred thousand are

playback public television's coverage of the watergate hearings will continue after breakfast station identification on a great coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of pbs and public broadcasting service the pope the pain

the pain

and ride continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities european correspondent robert mcneil as we go back to that hearing senator evan is asking gotten stronger reconstruct what strong told a charlatan this is very common he was going through and you know you're right mr chairman i believe my testimony is that mr mcgregor called me after the discussion of the key

biscayne decisions have reported those decisions after they had been made to mr haldeman in the political matters memorandum he made that's correct he reviewed the thirty or so any decision and sophisticated operation yes sir that was one of the decisions that he indicated had been approved happening and then you make a report who knew you're right

three hundred people that's correct that's correct the meeting that's correct but when you go on in

that that operation is or that area and not be returned to you and you're going on the basis of information yes sir the talk and paper was returned in the package of folders surrounding political matters not only thing do you know no there's no doubt in my mind you know

it's only major league now you you will get live in the deal and it also i was very clear impression left you're welcome is this you

oh oh and you mentioned that you had trained it is years and he didn't get it that way is bowser at night the petition as we just discussed no i shredded the documents that doesn't have been instructed to do so and also because i thought they ever became public they would be politically embarrassing you aware of the competition the

content yes i am re read them many times and thats your opinion that the caucus did not suggest any criminal activity no the papers suggested that matters when she became they became public really embarrassing like this are stronger shredding them ever said to you before oil missouri and this is the first time in germany shredding forum facilities that's correct i am i've done and reassuring for that however in terms of copies in keeping the files in order i had been instructed when i first joined the snap to keep copies of all documents

related to the campaign and i made a very genuine effort to be then those were instructions on to keep copies of materials now our office had a shredder right in interviews a great deal to eliminate copy of papers that had been replaced by other papers you use regularly that assistance as well as you mentioned this morning i don't think so well i did not

attend any of the needs that you've become highly publicized his you know meetings going on you know ms custer intelligence gathering of several meetings in europe there is any more information on that when these well that was present yes or on june thirty nineteen seventy one i prepared a talking paper for a meeting and had been scheduled for mr haldeman and mr mitchell at which the subject of political intelligence was raised and at that particular media sand wedge proposal was raised as a subject for discussion mr mitchell and mr baldwin well the

meeting's can you recall on november fourth nineteen seventy one there is a need to train hauling mr mitchell magruder and myself at which the subject of political intelligence was discussed meaning intelligence but that time it was a matter of discussion i don't believe any decisions have been made just a subject of discussion mr mitchell mentions germany's main i had not heard the name before and then my notes of the meetings i still know i mean the but you must have

discussed ways in the use of going about getting political intelligence division the only specific matter and i've gone back to my files and looked at the notes on that meeting the only specific item that was mentioned was the surveillance of senator clinton oh it had been my understanding based on my discussions on being that there was to be a twenty four hour tail on senator kennedy i learned later from john b that that have been cut down to carry out and i did not know that gesture didn't have through history to be persuaded there's a whole series of

campaign hours it was mentioned very briefly i believe mr mitchell indicated that the decision had been reached on political intelligence because the parties were correct i called up yesterday after the meeting indicated to him the discussions whether you you know this air on december seventeenth nineteen seventy one i prepare a talking again for a meeting between mr haldeman mitchell at which the subject of political intelligence was to be discussed where you present those are excluded expressly for many as i have been you know from what anybody may have told us in the meeting what was discussed

one of the questions was should sean bean become the control point rather than merely the white house contact for political intelligence the answer that i got for mr hollande was that it should continue to be the white house the other question posed in much of it not an answer was should mr levy the one man responsible for political point most are not then letting loose discuss the culturally wasn't proposing the talking neighbor and i have no way of knowing whether it was discussed at the meeting a meeting that you remember your political intelligent answer this morning to you

he was very i kept a file and hours made a note of the phone calls that i monitor and separate our votes i've been back to that file i would guess the number of pieces of paper and they're somewhere close to forty or fifty but that i went back to that file and not vote for the purpose of counting the number of phone calls phone calls were the subject of conversation if belgium conversations that you've monitored have to do with political intelligence gathering

a conversation a police shortly after the june thirty meeting between mr haldeman and mr mitchell which are monitored discuss the older man or mine but there was not a reference at that time too political intelligence one was this case was unbelievably after the june thirty nineteen seventy one what was the substance of that conversation mr mitchell was reviewing for mr haldeman the investigations that were ongoing regarding ellsberg following the leak of the pentagon papers you refer to the person at the state department who had leaked some information to mr ellsberg you refer to an official at the defense department and had admitted disclosing confidential national

security information my notes on the conversation runs six or seven pages of extensive discussion to say well i cannot take notes in the executive office building on what my best recollection is shortly after the june thirty nineteen seventy one you justify that a little mammals daily as i recall on them and some of them were likely where did you get your information and one of the original the memorandum we're not prepared they would be prepared as frequently as once a week usually once every two weeks sometimes latest once every three weeks and i would get the information by talking to people on the white house staff who are politically active such as

i'm going to call some people and the states including california people in seventeen the committee many senior individuals personally who would tear the polling information daily mr jawad for advertising information as jeff lunden reports on the field organization for marriage for reports on general research done in the campaign there is a fellow in charge of direct mail bomb morning i'll probably a daily walk out of information here muslim an estimated to you michel

one piece of it signature on them and his office will be in a final four much of the information that they have decided that internal disputes have been resolved seventy no one to send copies of memoranda to me i received packages of information from the committee which is what these three hundred and fifty thousand dollars but i understand i

can understand why does want to miss lilly says about the use in the white house for something in connection with a can and why would you pick it up and then they'd be given to somebody where you're reasonably well there is pollsters they would conduct a full force would happen again bill to go very far from the white house no it's not mr harwood he not connected with three hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth of miles of abuse in this campaign because he could take the cash to a polling organization runs the

california to bolster in california during his routine well as official in the white house that and who isn't i would guess somewhere in the neighborhood of four hundred but that's just the ballpark this genially possible family's four hundred who could have been interested in the cost of you know listen now as one of the alternatives thomas mr phil indicated that you know a band for a long time that he was able to travel and that you would be willing to do except me cause severe cash mr david indicated that neither he nor anyone he can think of on the white house that

would be able to do it on the chairman of people mostly the task he told me that he would not be able to arrange the holding of the money fairly close to be campaign spending law and that they'd hand so i scrambled for some alternatives to present to israel as is customary you know that's correct why wasn't that your agenda in the summer is where he was just one of the matter is

that i had been asked to do before a white house that wrapped up those white lie functions with the kennedy center in january islands off alaska was a matter of the last man or had not taken care of this garden plenty of a piece of unfinished business that's another way for the question's question for me carol i wouldn't ask about three hundred thousand of about three hundred three

hundred thousand dollars has referred to and the conversation on march thirtieth nineteen seventy two the fact that seven tino on now has this to get political intelligence gathering system you know and again as that not three hundred thousand about this was david in the memorandum or possibly in so called their basements all right no that statement was included in the original cover memorandum that it was the detachment so venture to this is the first time for three hundred thousand dollars a year we talk about the league and that presumably are testimony so far indicated two hundred and fifty thousand can you explain

no sir i have no explanation for that other than i wrote down what was a recruiter told that there's certain income i don't know but yes i wrote down three hundred or as he told me on the telephone and completed the political management loan within a day or two and march thirtieth nineteen seventy two actually would've been a day after the meeting and half baked the conversation was on the very first witness to a telephone conversation was long enough for you mr mcgrew army can remember specifically my massive reconstruction of events is that it was on the characters right and the meeting at this game where

the amount was set fifty thousand dollars according to other witnesses were some thirty day before so no great period of time what line between that time and allegedly the two hundred and fifty thousand dollar the but it was there and the day the following day when mr ritter passed on to the information of his three hundred and fifty two hundred and fifty or three hundred years the money at a comedy or possession orchestra members possession on his persona mr liddy not to my knowledge you're really counting to its expenditures so you have no idea how we can reconcile that recently the budget between two and fifty thousand three an uncertain hour talk about another now we've heard about three hundred and

fifty thousand dollars that was received brown crp and brought to the white house for colin meloy yeah oh that hurts april sixth as are the variables that oracle's know how you picked up three and fifty thousand dollars and so i asked the lever to who is at the moment over seventy mr butterfield and stayed with him in his office as we can take possession of the money yes we canada and he took possession of it is all ok let's for and what the nomination twenties fifties hundreds were you aware of the contention that it was the usual polling

oh definitely hadn't been discussed the need for separate independent polling before we discuss our polling agency i'm gay not really well enjoy the materialism well they were conducting extensive polling also and we would want to run balls to double check the results and also polls were conducted an industry holmes direction on matters related to the campaign a personal question clinton is trying to find out right now was it in fact now it turned out

that we incurred over the course of the campaign something in excess hundred one hundred and ten thousand dollars in idaho and expenses mr stanza mic and they have substantial assets at the end mr the rangers fans to pay that either colin stands out of the ordinary campaign funds and not to use any part of the three hundred and fifty thousand dollars of understand the picture the committee to reelect president was doing polling maybe the national republican committee that's correct and for fifty thousand dollars initially was for mr allman i are prisoners that is to be kept secret committee to reelect president republican national committee and almost all members of the white house not mr ehrlich oh no

not to my knowledge mr mitchell no i think he knew about the fact that one three hundred and fifty thousand dollars the president knew that we conducted extensive private paul actually can't speak as to whether even worried about it you know whether the new novel indignation that he knew or did not know the three other units that no i have no information i didn't realize as serving as the numerous occasions i would walk into the oval office

with the polling results in hand and miserable i'm still not quite sure why you'd want to have separate polling checked there are cells needing medical elected president but why would you want to check the reception a few had reputable polling can feel why why would you feel constrained to check the results well all they're as different from gallup different from opinion research differs from peter's results we have confidence in the particular polling firm that we've used at this particular demographic information one of the one of the primary reasons for having a separate polling capability was the confidentiality of the questions and the results not all polls concerned the campaign told the restaurant and i'm not intending to you any sort of misconduct or mr impropriety what i'm reading at is the very fact that

at that polling was being undertaken by mr hall security and conceal the committee to reelect president presumably republican national committee's implies some sort of application or mistrust of the committee to re elect the president or the existing republican organization the republican national committee a new enlightening and that risk but do you have any insight or any information that would wind farm on saturday that suspension well yes there was definitely a feeling of distrust committee to re elect the president in that sense of the confidentiality of the polling that they were conducting are numerous times when the number of people who actually would have access to the polling results just cut down one time i have quite an argument

with mr mcgregor because i had been instructed by mr pollan that i was to tell mr mcgregor <unk> mitchell's presence that he was not have access to the polling information and the geneva meeting there was considerable amount of distrust of the more people who have information more likely would be to me down the aisle pursue that much further but the image that is coming through the mainstream on correct me if you disagree with that comes through to me is that the republican national committee did not run that race the commissioner elect the president was set up for that purpose but even it didn't entirely wrong areas of problems are people in the white house had a separate organization that was concealed then separate from alternate reelect president obama in action

committees that there's a part of your experience pollsters say the republican national committee the committee to reelect president of remarkable mr hall and roll bolling air it was also substantially but many of the tree and fifty thousand dollars question about at polling organization on innovations in all ordinary way our other funds were used for those other conclave i checked as distinguished day it's my understanding i know to be in a range that with mr stanton i believe it was a tornado that the conclusion of the campaign has fallen expenses incurred during the campaign so the initial concern for secrecy disappointed at some point and you didn't that means other than that

so that purpose but we have some information that threaten fifty thousand dollars was also used in part for a newspaper reporter and i believe you a job yes art of the three hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth of three hundred and twenty eight thousand dollars left i believe that you can't remember whether the and while seven thousand dollars and fifteen thousand was returned it was fifteen thousand seven thousand injured characters that there's a holiday was in an envelope and the two figures religion orlean immediately assume the power myself and i simply don't recall you know how much they had promised not to try to find out in preparation for testimony the prosecutors indicated as much earlier i

should not try to reconstruct any aspect of the handling of the money will be there you testified before the grand jury on this amount of mind concerning the three hundred and fifty thousand dollars through twenty eight and thirty three hundred and fifty thousand dollars because i asked if the three hundred and fifty thousand dollars was in fact and it was a lot of this do you ever mentioned the fig or three hundred and twenty eight thousand before the danger know i question mr palmer never make any statement to the grand jury that is you're aware of about someone for twenty eight hundred and fifty thousand though mr hall invention that mr artie mr oliver never discussed that song with new thriller twenty eight thousand this

decision three and the un trying to get drawn to what was over the grand jury about the amount of money involved and whether or not there was in fact twenty two thousand dollars that was returned with his aunt or forty two thousand less the amount of the actor it's it requires in a turnabout out of all the money and we're left with uncertainty about whether the ad cost fifteen thousand or seven thousand it's pretty good buy and i'm trying to find out where that money in fact they get back or not didn't tell me was certainly that all of the money was returned the same thing about this money is better you know the information the strong anyone spinning you know what i'm talking about as analysts are talking about people i mean some of this

oh i know i don't know anyone else who you don't know anyone the answer is whether or not any suspicion that someone is confusion about the figures i don't know right now lead you can give us that we can pursue i'm not trend which owns what they're asking them like an allegation against someone without substantial evidence but you suggest in the areas of inquiry that we might follow bush's gaming people were mentioned in connection with the money well let me ask you this role and take your time and i noticed there's another boat signal on the clapper you agreeable talking step further on that subject of a later date straub

of the arab revolt was in progress now in order not to mention a police headquarters few additional questions committee will be a tenor like europe has volunteered to go forward about this question while i go whoa look at somebody like you are i don't think it's possible to continue for those continue to interrupt the interrogation and gordon strong so we'll take a short break to public television coverage of the senate

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presidential campaign activities you again correspondent jim lehrer was a major turn in the caucus room the weakening the committee members of the question as far into lost on all eleven and record date as to the time the president of the united states first had knowledge of a break canada's psychiatrist of mr elbert you know those are and you know you have no knowledge of that but i have no knowledge of that and then the deal of speculation in testimony undid all of mr haldeman and mr erlichman and what's known as a very tight ship in the white house you're close association with two man victimized all along would you agree with that statement yes a very tight ship they were the president's closest advisors and comment on domestic matters yes which wanted to know more about political matters

offermann issue standpoint i would guess that it would be mr brolin from a personality or poland standpoint it would be mr hall room and you make those decisions i'm not familiar with decisions that mr erlichman made i know what decisions mr holland made on political matters and that is of importance to the campaigns that memorandum from asthma to us was sent by mr haldeman and the brine goes to the president's attention eye can specifically recall ever seeing a memorandum from mr mitchell to mr halden know they communicated primarily and private meetings

than there were maybe a half a dozen the miranda from mr haldeman to mr mitchell that i saw this fall immediately bring to the attention of the president that is the considerable i simply don't know that i would soon be good but i don't know that for a fact would be a reasonable assumption or new audis and it was to hold a rewarding break in you're asking for my opinion yes that would be my opinion yes sir and you knew who mentioned in your previous testimony had to know something about the cigarette in hand and what did you know and when did well and i began in july of nineteen seventy one discussing the problem will need in a campaign for a

tick tock capability one or the other of us mention the possibility of concentrating the same person we had known together in college or even in a cup it at that a prankster political jokes and in late august nineteen seventy one in a meeting between mr allman was to come back and myself was to parliament authorized was to combine to pay salaries and expenses to engage in

that type activities what plants excuse me sooner or clinton's name some of these instances you're going to do well to go to for example a musky rally and have a sign on that would say this is humphry territory that the militia and their well we discussed a series of activities illegal mr tucker quite a reputation for being an ingenious individual and we thought that was just a great it would likewise the ingenious van relatively

new monument that's why their expenses were authorized to just grace so that there would be more than one person inside now you interviewed by the idea of this nineteen hundred and seventy two years or was entirely disagree mr holmes were you surprised i was surprised that the fbi did not ask me more probing questions even about cement you testified to his own lives being lieutenant warranty matt weir waving the investigation has been shared on vine has been in the water in this awful last year

well i know that i talked with yesterday and explain to him what i knew about the cigarette in honor anubis the chicken and similarly talk mr dean i didn't know whether his investigation went further than that or not i had discuss those matters with him in the summer of nineteen seventy two you catch me on today this correction i must be overstated because the hall to the white house you know there's no surrogate not is it reasonable to agree with mr butterfield mr erlichman didn't have knowledge of that visser is an agency's of madison and health with openness to discern what happened as

well i can only remember one or two occasions where mr erlichman would have access to any of the polling information that was to calm and connected through me and you know there's nothing that comes to mind immediately as you know well there's a direct conflict and some of the testimony when you invest in new pillows while oil believe you in reference to his answer i believe you should assess the witnesses' testimony and white of his history for telling the truth in a lot of the individuals motives tell truth mr mcgregor as told various versions of the watergate story many of them believed to the federal bureau investigation the three grand juries to the original water of a trial jury the

original prosecutors to the attorneys and other officials at the committee to reelect president well it's very odd he told us all along that they believe in as to an individual's motive to tell a truth mr mcgregor was faced with and his mind at least twelve counts of perjury whatever other times he might be charged with his desire to deliver an individual on the white house staff to the prosecutors was quite i believe he selected me because i had refused to corroborate testimonies he asked me the corporate yesterday the

workers but he would frequently and for me there have been decided one of her not in fact been decided by one individual and we have an occasional arguments over that misinformation they said must mention orna long shirt and times if you ever get anything incorrect you please explain what some illustration of one illustration will forever stick in my mind after the republican national convention that decision and the natives and certificates to all those who have attended there was quite a number of people and i have been working with several members of the white house staff trying to get the various certificates for the various levels of people obviously so forth somehow project was not complete

and that one morning about four am he called me from air force one man told me very clearly that i have not performed and that the project should be annulled immediately but it was a bad dream cycle signal operator back to that i just get a call from the parliament and then he said yes there was over the radio and i can tell you is that the morning joe consider leaving yes sir i did consider leaving but when i was fired from the job and he hired me through the election and i gave him my commitment that i would stay through the election strong i think this body of the senate

many a recess at this point is a vote on the senate floor and i think some of the white voters a few more questions as the message on the planet despite the number of votes on the senate floor the committee has done a financial gordon strong today sought to fuel the seven year interim senator hell i returned to chair the scenes you know so but what's destroying your question did mr hall and meet with us at any time and preparation for his appearance before the new staff this committee notes or did not now in the course of his testimony were before the course of his parents were veterans didn't like that touch and very briefly in and

the kids do what your knowledge of these matters has specifically in the air leaks and plumbers the pentagon papers indicate so minimal general mills general knowledge of what was going on how this seems to be rather not testimony that you pay before mr rolle absolutely i know very little about the operation as it related to me another is my knowledge of the program to stop leaks are discussed in executive session and that was a program established after the president held a cabinet meeting and i worked with mr dean and mr maliki on that project political asylum was the recipient of

course of the memoranda from needs to be and it's true now finally correct yes i was the statement that he used in the original meeting in his office with mr mao mr dean mr higby yes that is right yeah no we did not know whether or

not you're in a strong region says the case is a veteran well he told me to make sure the files are cleaned restored the i told john dean and i'm reminded him on that july one other words you get on that you're destroying these materials are correct that took place on air force one are now than in conclusion oh i want a partial judges are extremely important because the element of fairness volunteer committee members of the committee and so far your

ability to retrieve information make no role of preparation your parents before this committee i wonder if you would describe to the committee conditions which exists in so far as you're concerned when you want to go back and take a look at your records and preventing internet you might have from the secular a lot of the campaign i took all files which i considered presidential papers memoranda from the president mr hollande a miranda mr holman today for me mr hall to prove are pointing to in the executive office building and locked down and at least six states it became necessary for me to recall specific dates and means and again going back

to the executive office building was allowed access but i was not permitted either to copy any documents buys iraq's or to take notes about any particular item in there nora take notes in with me four matters that i wanted to discover this is only present in the room where you insert a secret service agent i assume you wanna find some detail piece of information i can read the documents and are back in the same time we do run out of the room and tried to shut down the new houses were no i

would not go outside the room charter members many things that possibly could in the space of two or three hours and leave the room with the secret service agent loch the filing cabinets locker room and death usually go over to my lawyers office and try to write up my best recollection of the information that i had read no we're not allowed to bring any paper a pencil in the room with your make a notation why we're trying to hold together the fact prior to your appearance before this committee that is correct and this is the situation and it continues to be a situation where it was the same situation for your prayers before the grand jury

i don't believe i even went into the room to reconstruct my recollection before i went to the grand jury and it's been the situation recently became important that i be able to reconstruct fact accurately you consider this to be a very fierce set of conditions i would prefer an alternative system i have no further questions of mischievous up the comment that rahm is really all me and i consider the conditions under which he was great preparation your case presents nation to the american people to be grossly unfair bistro proportions you and your testimony suggests of several

elite asia the president added capability of electronically taking conversations of their offices now you've indicated that there are several meetings with alderman's office was fine political intelligence gathering was being discussed discussions were recorded no i did not know that and i do not think that mr coleman then take capability in his office not know that for a fact finding i think in his own statement was committed civil fraud it was during the spirit of the time which i believe was mid february ago that a conversation with mr o'brien in which you told ryan that he had received his final authorization to leave these activities

with the president i think it was well i think the timing of that version of the facts readers interested and shortly thereafter and has today's testimony indicated that the interest in getting this from a rural government jobs increased something like ten four it's my opinion that version of the facts was presented by this summer bruner to mr o'brien for that specific purpose conversations with vista volunteer advocate to receive such a report recently no he did not he subsequently told me that that mr mcgregor had told him a slightly different version of that story and he dismissed at the time as well let's

just remember trying to get some attention if our organization or was libya's activities no sir i didn't know where you were visibly these activities of that nature i was not their job to the best of the buddha was less cost of this yes that is my firm opinion it has been thank you very much for you corporation this committee was that in recess until ten am on and so ended a day when the man testifying was all but

ignored because of the swirl of other more dramatic events that probably won't be the case tomorrow when interest in the presidential debates temporarily cools and john ehrlichman the former white house domestic cheeses the witness the white house so far moved slowly in response to watergate and it's unlikely there will be any immediate response to the subpoenas that will leave before a spotlight on john ehrlichman one of the president's two topics you'll be followed by h r haldeman charles colson and by that time we will have heard from all the top administration aides have been alleged in the water get involved what they're saying or whether they'll be willing to talk it all on certain topics may generate as much interest as who will ultimately gained access to the presidential debates the committee's subpoenas today were very specific senator and stressed that he wanted no blanket access to the president's teenagers documents just those directly related to watergate after today's session berns chief consultant unconstitutional altered western university professor arthur miller talk about that with a correspondent peter

kay only committee is looking for us the availability of tanks and fans would tend to prove that this movie adaptations of the night and that's it for that the ferrets on the alleged criminal activities committee asked for a violent criminal activities under no theory of law that i'd often only fugitive of knowledge about the political activities that maybe in his possession even the pro immigrant today was a day of history and gordon strong stephen hess of emirate of president nixon author upon both so on american politics now senior fellow at the brookings institution and john cranmer professor of law georgetown university law center here in washington to watch this day with us what are your thoughts at this late hour beginning with you mr cramer it is a very

strong contrast de france testimony between the support of most of the terms of his prior testimony constantly referring to him as the truth teller i don't think you ever lied to me he said i'm confident that he disclosed all the facts in the parliament he was remarkable remembering details is the constant reiteration throughout its four hours of testimony on that matter the dean is the truth teller at the same time a compliment hello reiteration that was the rumor is the lawyer mr rivers one of soccer's of wanting to perjure himself not the fact that he had received on behalf of living cheap monthly plans you did not but gruber was responsible for lying about steroid and these alleged approval of them actually plan these matters at toll plazas to the committee and the middle is the longest home and that palin was the major reason that the committee was trying to follow why why would come out of home was destroyed testing whether to major issue with respect imaginable first that you know about the johnstone affair about the burglar before and i think that's very clear from the trial testimony at least apparently nothing about the

specifics of the break into the democratic national committee secondly what did mr holman do with respect to the couple first aspect there is did mr kohlmann writer the destruction of the papers with respect to the political intelligence system knowing what to keep that away from the prosecutor was an ambitious france's know they were simply try to cover up with the political impasse and they certainly did find it was four thousand in so there's nothing from where and a second banner with respect to the use of live and fifty thousand dollars they got folding purposes should was that she was the playoffs again this just wanting to indicate not that really was just going back to the committee to get that mr lew you simply getting into the time of the committee in terms of january nineteen seventy three so there's nothing wrong they're basically the unofficial seems to execute not going to get us the whole and i put that same question to steven hess has a special significance to live because this is the study's author of five books now as people finish number six and go back in earning his bread at the brookings institution in short this is his last day here last night

with us on these shows so the state asked for your thoughts not only at the end of today with the inaugural session with us bill clinton's strong as pleasant looking young man with a somewhat squeaky voice who might've been playing the lead in a movie out called everybody goes to capitol hill but i must admit that i found it almost impossible to concentrate on his words today i doubt that his words added up so that much in this continuing saga but anyway what really was happening was off camera the momentous decisions that were being made and this was the first time in history that the congress to serve a subpoena on the president of the united states there's a very sad day it's very disturbing day with nothing exhilarating about this moment to great institutions have chosen not to blank struck me if it simply ran out of good will there was no willingness left to accommodate particular presidents

but they seemed to be in impunity motives a loss and the lack of trust of respect this can only be remembered in history as a very nasty day for america so i'm glad to be leaving gm and robin i have enjoyed my association with you gentlemen but i must admit i haven't like wallowing in in this feel like i feel unclean even even listening i don't think that many of these witnesses really understand what this country is all about the differences and diversity to a respect for each other that makes the country operate i don't like listening to myself talking about it i sound like a mild craig uh i i met these people an idea i had sound mean i don't think of myself as a mean person so tonight as i leave you weren't under stress that i'm burned out and i salute you for performing a very useful though distressing service i wish you were too strong stomach mr de botton we're parting statement here and you used the word no wallowing what are the

alternatives to wallowing and watergate it does well but i think what were seen as as the sleazy and cynical and i like it if we thought of our government and our country as other than that but if we have to you know one or the other perhaps it's best to know the worst and to be prepared for it and understand it as as was the summer months why a question that a strong today on his advice to young people and he said that they're staying away from it i can understand that was destroyed twenty seven years old at the white house is pretty heady stuff two years later twenty nine areas in front of the senate committee with community that's very sad business i would hope that my advice the american people or to use that america would be different but i'd like to think of as a failure of of men and out of the system up i've i like to think that we're that we

have a system that for two hundred years hasn't produced the watergate i would suggest on the other hand that when only fifty five percent of the people vote after all voting is the most elemental in and simple obligations of citizenship other politicians who are hearing that people are listening and hearing that people are watching and they get the message stephen wall was we've enjoyed your of your many nights with us on the good luck on on a number six what we're seeing again do you also john thank you very much on the simple face and disconnection would seem to be taking an enormous risk by refusing to give up the recordings that he claims would reveal his innocence the risk is that senator evan will win the battle for public opinion with his argument that a man who refuses to produce evidence is writing material that would be incriminating to him mr nixon seems to be saying that an effect yes the tapes could be interpreted in different

ways the logic of the situation and tells the conclusion that me that they could best be interpreted in a fashion hostile to him and then a fashion passed out again that is relevant in this situation is the testimony of john dean what john dean chargers is that the president knew of the cover up as far back as september fifteenth last year a congress as you know september fifteenth was one of the worms mr dean charges that on march thirteenth of their shear mr nixon you about the authors of executive clemency defendants mr lipson says he did not commit he wants that the strongest and friends are drawn from mr nixon's letter today as opposed to conversations could be interpreted to support john dean's charges or they could be interpreted to support mr nixon's regime and he does not trust the urban committee or the courts of law or the press or the american people to decide that matter seems to be saying he wouldn't get a fair hearing instead of seeking such a gang is going to get his own final definitive version

when this phase of the hearings are over and then talk about so the issue remains a test of his own personal credibility against that of joan the gallup poll shows a steady erosion of his connections personal credibility and creeping support now at twenty four percent in favor of impeachment since his credibility is essential ineffective management of the presidency one wonders how long this can go on well the american people are deeply uneasy about impeachment just get bored and are wary or will the creeping movement towards impeachment grow inexorably it may be that these two movements in public opinion on like a race of tortoises mr nixon is waiting to see which one gets tired first we'll be back tomorrow night or my colleagues jim lehrer and peter carey says robert macneil goodnight friend from washington you've been watching gavel to gavel videotape coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities as coverage is made possible by

grants for special events coverage from the corporation for public broadcasting and the ford foundation and has been a production of unpacked and a vision of a greater washington educational telecommunications association you're only milne and i the

peace be