1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-17; Part 2 of 4

it's b the recipients we're going to close i recognize a receipt of these funds officially in their income tax returns why all the secrecy in that the level of response again senator the media the actions by these attorneys would be that would be the way i would expect that they would show but as to the procedure that i was to follow there was just no question and that was the all encompassing confidentiality center so you

took the advice and instructions rest of the question absolutely we have indicated that we have a meeting with this is that up there which you destroy certain important documents reports and the record of contributions as a senator my memory and that is that i get my reports me when i considered the original report to muster stations in february march of nineteen hundred and seventy two no rapture destroyed what i consider to be a partial in supporting documents and i wanted to re insurance papers

i destroyed them to maintain the absolute confidentiality of my records in other words certain other certain other checks that were destroyed during this period inadvertently well what i what i intended to do was to make certain that all personal and supportive papers that i have senator were destroyed i felt that i would reach their confidentiality that i've met with the people whom i talk and i have a very strong feeling about about my word that's a that's a lie and here was among confidentiality all there was a really got real competition it was a way we

have and those that the activities western wall yes absolutely was this committee as to exactly how much all of the attorneys have received uncertainty assignment that i was after all her clients whichever well certainly my memory is that i caused two hundred and twenty thousand to be given us which which was dispersed yesterday speaking to attorneys twain

who are you stupid oh i want to testify senator that mr devlin to see i believe twenty five thousand and that mrs hart distributed funds to other attorneys who were the other terms the name the other attorneys of a restaurant i do so that was just the beginning attorney i think for mr korb well just first names i'm not certain services that we'd really i don't know that there's no stability and the giraffe clap

this because it's been mr marcos was another of the attorneys are certain that these men receive response and that's certainly what it would be like my understanding that they had received fines going to be a state loan of some of i'm from tampa twenty thousand dollars

and your testimony of suggested that you had a meeting wednesday in which dining review on parliament to testify and your fbi interrogation of the correction i'm being the senator and i say and the reason for that i believe that the event have to me that in fact that's the opening up of that was on labor day ten o'clock in my office in los angeles and that

indicated that mr bing was conducting an investigation of various local tennis and reading matter and that i should leave with him in the entire milo and witnessed research writing which was that of and two mr dave davies in retrospect as what recommendations would you give this committee has two possible legislation to prevent a recurrence of some of the activities in which you involved

i think that regulations you can clear that as far as i think should be that legislation should be enacted to prevent the use of those would be to suggestions that are more final portion of the time you are asked to raise funds for the special assignment were you aware that the

committee to re elect the president and i'm for london's of money i'm renee montagne maybe a rose special assignment through the fact that i had been doing for him for at least two years ago and witnessed or being in a position of absolute trust the band it doesn't work and as a state

senator when i spoke to mr damon he made his request to me it was just didn't come into my mind that this could be you know i just thought i should go forward as a special assignment to raise these funds this man had at one time i recall both ports that your first career had been supplying the finance committee where the opinions of those two yellow legal opinions again it was just there was no question in my mind senator it was an absolute trust in the character of this person and i guess that just when thornton as i say within a matter of a few minutes i called mister sister question the propriety of the multimedia question that wasn't what was being the staging and advice to take a second step in relation to

occupy let's set of united airlines has a case before cabo masterpieces such and such would you without questions or by united airlines announced that would not have that this was this was a an assignment being given to me by mr bain others that recently named as we end again because america absolute trust that i can forward in retrospect that you were involved in a criminal activity in retrospect now this testimony and realizing that what has testified that this was like isn't that the point

just a minute in nineteen seventy two committee to re elect the president and the destruction of the rockets as there was there anything illegal about this destruction of understanding the center wasn't a lot of pride in april nineteen seventy two there was no need to keep any records has raised the dispersed oil is not correct answer that is my understanding was that a common practice not keep such acts as a tip but even in spite of this didn't you keep accurate records and turn those only commit a re elected president who simply destroying those copies remaining in your hands as an actor yes the laborers to staff is investigating other campaigns going to be interesting

information was somewhat similar which is not surprising because that was the practice friday april nineteen seventy two as we change that in the congress i take it from your testimony is you suddenly i'm glad we did and those who might for much more money let us say irresponsible unreliable are handling campaign finance is still a connection when they sit on the stem from your testimony that you disperse these certain amounts of money to most is that where this was done on the others of whom it was the center and what did he tell you in his instructions to you this was in

nineteen seventy one that's true i'm going to do and reach reach that agreement and began dispersing funds to him for activities that he would be performing for what gates connection was it your understanding that you're discussing these songs which were in your control about time to read instructions of mr haldeman there under his jurisdiction and yesterday it was mr chabon as i remember our conversation did not mention mr haldeman the literature and withstanding clearly stand in the shoes of mr haldeman as one of mr holmes senior deputies during that timeframe as i understand your response you

were dispersing phones out that results of cash in on this date palms instructions are under his supervision that's right a meeting with mr chabon and i understand it was clear that he was speaking on behalf of mr haldeman with i don't recall the loophole you know several context of a lesson notes and during his time raising money and turning it over to him for disposal authorities wanted a fence did he ever talk to you in any of these conversations about the fact that he was using this money that he obtained from you know an older people for cover up or hush

money or for payoffs the center is this year and this assignment the us a survey and you did not use that language i remember that he had some cautionary words for me what's yours good morning what were these terms cautionary this is this procedure something to the effect that this procedure is so unusual or order again senator i would not continue and

he never mentioned the word cover up for anything similar law that would indicate that it was that's right this procedure it was after all oil a retired new york city police detective and professional and i feel and these cautionary words and again i don't remember exactly what they were those laws these other factors race this level of concern even though i think mr brolin on july twenty six it just came back on me and i knew at that point that i would not do more the us would sever it tell you want any of these defendants told him and his contact with them while he was handling this morning i guess or he didn't want to be so i had various times that he would report

discussions that he had with the areas of these individuals i think with the witnesses which i would never relate back to either mistreating or mr rowe and they were individuals the recall anything besides the most innovative idea i don't personally how many times are did you discuss money for these walking into famines that the white house we have mr bean and several times but with only ones mr reitman and i think the second time when i buy my memory is that i live by

the fact that it received its funds for mr jones in early august you described that of course already him yes or gemini discussions most fun personally network mr demers the parliament mr erlichman was to measure almost typical summer anyone out to us that this money was being used to cover up a hush money and pay off money and he uses music mr stands indicated when he was here in his testimony the verve damon had assured

you that this request and seventy five thousand one hundred dollars was something that lee you do you remember any discussion that you had witnessed the stands about the legality of the illegality of the seventy five thousand one hundred dollars when you receive from him to senator my memory of my visit minister stands perched the top and then my visit with him in a hotel room was simply that i told him that i had received a very important assignment and the deficit thompson's substance of that conversation let's go have a meeting in west the dean's office for when you

as i understand the purpose of this meeting to get instructions from the meeting when i receive them mr lowe room to be given to mr dillard simmons with no indication for me as to the source of the va came to mind this is it it was the nineteen sixties

participation has been very well he was it was part of the meeting he was on the telephone no one supplies but he was certainly part of the meeting in and was aware of what was being discussed that senator know i don't i'm not clear in my own mind as to whether or not there were instructions given of this meeting but in most instruction oregon but i can't say for certain but i am certain that approximately forty thousand dollars was given to me by patrol routes to be given to three license again to say that he participated in the meeting would you be a little more explicit because i'm sure enough elections was we know that there was in the

meeting and so i had my view i mean how give the league career i mean by that did you or i first was that when you came out of the obvious what was set i don't remember exactly who was it was my memory is that we all i read <unk> and i write separately right first or whether or not certain that mr beam ct was in the office and that there will be a discussion of these finds industrial route that for me and possibly directions but most us with but which i wouldn't get along with you in the us what's

your recollection is it was a meeting between three people being a row and participation of all these three people with the beams nonpartisan version was only when you have a metaphor my theory of the many phone calls more than thirty minutes there was another meeting and in dean's office a bizarre concept some of the twenty first century people this meeting was to reconcile rapid the correct that needed i went through my my records to find that received a total and five that had been disposed in the total i wanna make sense

and once i had that confirmation that i was satisfied in and felt the discharge for me that's a responsible was this meeting to a meeting between these three people that it was all three participated in a lot of years why was the reason for their non surgical is just a problem of the most convenient ways rather than leicester mr demers many telephone calls so all the time but i think the feeling was that this is the last debate on both these meetings that we have been talking about the recall who suggested most of dean's office who set

up a meeting i really don't not certain that night i think in view of the fact that i wanted to affect his confirmation of my records i don't remember we need to be present mr demers my memory of law rep sinaloa putting an unknown in this particular enterprise that you were engaged and you thought he was the

person who was directing is that fair to say yes sir it's big bill has been weakened during this lunch and recess the committee also held a lengthy executive session and i'm almost certain we'll report on the committee's ever still kind of presidential tapes of television coverage of the senate watergate hearings will continue after a pause for station identification

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hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities you again correspondent jim lehrer after almost an hour in an executive sessions in urban brought the committee back to the year interim progress report all along the nineteen seventy three from the show's second reading as follow him with them at the direction of the president i am i impose a little rotted and testimony about the secret service to congressional committees sincerely or support the show from the precipice

you know he was sixteen in nineteen seventy three etc show it about record was all agent of the secret service you have testimony i'm sorry this applies to the senate select committee which is investigating matters relating to the watergate break in and the crime epics which i am no longer being made his big impression on members of the white house detail of the secret service you always communicate this information secret service probably really ordination them personal commitment the

white house will be given liberation theology service and i was in the process of all in and they'll debate they all were apparently this is oh yeah the committee today how long now raymond

the witnesses there's a long long time and now as a consequence of the us senate that they can i can be an especially the second session of the entire community of in this moment that the impact team edition consider our discussion the committee agrees the conclusion that was not worthwhile at present to engage in any controversy will blow the witnesses on the question whether or not they should be

required to testify before the committee we've committed for you and it just was not a mountain witnesses were committed to them to determine for themselves but it made an olympic torch along somewhat similar level up from the president to the secretary of the treasury meeting as follows you should follow that request for information on stages and the white house will be given proper consideration when was the bombing and the location we made it hopes that the world is what role in our intrepid that were not imply anything can and has only interested at this stage in getting no access right to use in the bearings

all records and kate is in the possession of the white house with the rubble to the mouth with the many assault rifles that resolution on the sixteenth to investigate and justice the command is live in that challenge and send the law to the president ask him follow his cooperation and make them available to the committee records and tapes which are relevant to all models which the committee has authorized investigate and relevant to the testimony of witnesses who have medical committee on who also welcoming analysis as we do

we'd be able to get access to the records in that page with wi fi colorado and necessary investigation elmo novel that's satisfactory to everyone i associate myself with her description of situations that many find no father that the committee decided as you very accurately pointed out that would serve no immediate purpose engage in a conflict a controversy with the secret service on whether they should or should not disclose information years old but rather the decision making authority resided elsewhere it is investors are lazy that we are especially a letter which would not rise to the president making these requests one who is the custodian of attempts

to protect three receiving that information and the takers as they were like laughlin for this committee not to general fishing expeditions not protected by executive privilege success for years internal communications not related to the war situation getting those relevant portion play we are ok i'm optimistic and take this course of actions to pursue an effort to bail testimony from secret service agents which we might or might not so and then the chairman for the action taken for his description of the situation and i'm hopeful that we'll have

a response very very promptly these hearings are ongoing it's a matter of monumental importance and that we could have a discussion very quickly now last night the chairman of the night is the fact that it is public knowledge that a tentative meeting between new immigrants entering or for instance on force mr mccarthy no its possible or in lieu of that meeting that at least is the principles that this committee and principles that the white house might immediately began conversations on how to gain accessible you're welcome

it was calcutta be as brief as possible without that unlike of activity first meeting that you had with his dean when instructed you to raise money and i'm going to go with them to these defendants as you undoubtedly know some dispute over the median length mr demers positive that was my fault of one of your recollections the workplace thank you we met and talked and now we are and then my recollection is that the thirtieth which is a friday morning we met in my room building a new assertiveness that will not yes or in connection with his testimony and with jonah i'd like to

present some exhibits here an incident in the record of these exhibits celebrates the outline a lot of my farm which are dated june twenty seven jesuit simply says that they registered just between june one and july one nineteen seventy two a letter from us public health and applying to the sopranos committee mr peter this committee for moroccans and then leave a little ugly stuff we know in the comments below registration costs witnesses

to the registration god which is the last of seven and early media recognize that printing it really is new signature on my registration card as you're putting yes sir it is this is what you learned on that card when he registered and does that help answer on june twenty nine nineteen seventy to answer and that is an imprint of your credit caught their above eight registration can answer those problems with the law are not well let's go beyond fund raising efforts and let me ask you this question because there's been some

and will be having some speculation as to whether these were individual drop contributions of it was when you were soliciting funds have any time like the new solicited from individuals well marilyn would never know that we're on their contributions were illegal and would never ask for as far as you know there were individual farmers which unfortunately yes sir and mr stan smith interview with a committed mothers testimony years ago he stayed at el daily staff meetings where he associates the finance committee including calm but watchman evans not read hoffmann and letting

their pleas meetings you are and the planning stages an ear with an army and senator would you were known when mr stearns was interviewed by the committee staff on may he said he had daily staff meetings with its key associates and finance committee which included oo washington evidence non on occasion read hoffmann and let it my question was did question of watergate ever come up in any of these meetings no sir i'm talking now course about the planning of the break in the bucking the burglary of dollars to a business

collected what no sir i left the committee on friday the seventh april and that it had been banned in attendance of several staff meetings a scene of several weeks it's peas these were given to him on for seven years june twenty nine was the first one i think you gave him at the time seventy five thousand one hundred dollars is that correct yes i think the senator that was on june thirtieth friday june thirtieth june what instructions do you give most of the latin words when you turn this money would end of my best memory is that i asked with the us wants to

protect the funds and returned to your return to this hole in the er and that i would be in touch with them as to instructions in other words on june thirtieth you did not give him any specific goals or ryan on what instructions that you give to him after june thirtieth about this particular seventy five thousand one of bell senator in my memory is that sometime immediately after the return to california i receive instructions i think for mr bean or it may have been from the thorough i'm not certain asking that i give the instructions do with us wants to contact with a caddy and i think that those instructions or receive within a

period of a few days after that i returned on the thirtieth i then call of history last week's installment new york and that given those instructions even went to washington there were several call back and forth between he and mr teddy and then you wouldn't call me i've been contacted or misdemeanor mr will rule until a fire at one point and eventually it was clear that the fdic it would not receive the funds i'm sure he would not receive them yes sir i actually happen to have a bentley a senator i think that an attempt was made to and that mr ryan with the same result mr ryan would not accept delivery of funds know this is an attempt on the part of mr larsen yes sir that my direction in i had received a direction from you

mr bingham is true long and then i think it was in the second week of july that eventually until every was made of twenty five thousand dollars i think in this job that meant by mr us once again of migration in a privacy directions from the baby that could be in a little room those are twenty five thousand was turned over labor deal ruling striking image but the last village do give it a yes or no cause for twenty five thousand dollars for a roughly fifty one home at fifty thousand one hundred of sir i my recollection is that i think mr us what's this first group of some eight thousand dollars from mr liddy i am i know that i had constructed mr wessel it's through the data from the funds that i did for him whatever we needed for its expenses is this a thousand

to levy upon your instructions as lucy from home during goal and also one thousand was i received one thousand dollars which i turned over to mr strong at the white house and in response to his request for for one thousand dollars senator i received forty thousand dollars from the visual ruined because on the nineteenth of july which for us was going from that time forward i think my my memory is that almost all the funds went to this is fine with some thirty thousand dollars going to fitzgerald wrote about me

when the final payment one payment of some thirty thousand and it'll ruin if it was some more than fifty thousand and this is part of that time if we can go back to our newer than two we got over thirty four thousand dollars and seventy five cents or richard levy from a one thousand dollars plus another phony from room at one thousand dollars the point here what happened as far as the instructions to do something really eighty one thousand jobs with the next up senator church's struggle to receive instructions to to instruct the real estimates as to dispersal and as i say i think most of those parcels after mid july they went to mrs who in turn distributed funds

to embrace of the defendants and two various of the attorneys and all the world can you give us a little better understanding than that no they used to live yes sir i remember that i was told from time to time to give extra month and this is you remember what those amounts for her but then in the and reconstructing this development what the amounts we're in and the only funds when my memory is that actually a hundred and fifty thousand or thereabouts went to the system of which certain

areas of the defendants one hundred and fifty thousand dollars twenty five i think eighty thousand was given to mr libby is i remember one thousand the mr wessel it's and one thousand which i retained in the village was destroyed mr zelikow was two hundred and nineteen years or so long as i understand it this rather large amount to much as proximate a hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth of taking time to time you don't actually recall a specific dates in their mouths no sir i do not i don't

recall i recall a particularity the days when i receive the funds but i don't recall of anything like particularly as to the days that i called whisper us with or the one instructions were given them a few athletes to make these dispersants and as i say after mid july i think most of all the money went to mrs one who in turn distributed funds to various attorneys and other defendants blustering thirty thousand and one mr what is your recollection of in the instructions that you're receiving from most of being a little roller coaster payments ever funds to pay for attorneys and i recall all the names of the attorneys will learn about mr bittman mr rockwell i think

mr bailey and this from a rootless plus there were attorneys for but i never i could not do not remember the names of attorneys for other of the defendants and lesser amount was given to those attorneys on three attorneys for three of defense the instructions come mainly from it being a little rule you are initially i it's my recollection of that came primarily from yesterday shortly thereafter shark into the area are beginning to become more mr roy and the rising of the money it is honest than a juicy for the monster that the two hundred and nineteen dollars john in nineteen thousand dollars where did most of the year i should come from raises money or color from home no

sir i was just i was given my instructions again by either mr dean a little rodent and then the recall this current us alliance would receive the people that he was talking to an analysis point at which i would relate back to these people and that i would really get me that after i received my instructions of a band called us one final question did you have any discussions following the break cam watergate prose poser foreign policy

just come back out and get into an area that you have not testify at all sorts of press you familiar with the ongoing in the state of alabama born in nineteen seventeen election under construction tell us about it i was on three different

occasions i recall that there was a phone call literally be made to me and i think it was in late march of nineteen seventy nine the first one hundred thousand dollars to someone to be there in your eye from chase manhattan bank in new york and deliver them to an individual hotel in new york right i did not know his name i didn't know you well

individual rock on i don't reports i don't know

what was the signal is that he identified said you'd receive one side there was the ethnic violence you have a good name i didn't know anything now tell us about the next contribution from a circumstance that was the first one on mr come from an

unpleasant it may that left twenty sixteen campaign doesn't proceed i think within a month center i was again asked to do in this first of two hundred thousand following us embassy here this thing they also requested a second term and friends to be sure mr salmon thank you i do not know you didn't deliver the second that may develop yesterday that three hundred thousand of those about the next thirteen ignition again and then

another hundred thousand the whispers in the same manner all this time i was asked to disperse to an end of it the fb