New York Voices; 326; Back to School

I think that the curriculum that we have selected gives our students a very strong foundation in the basics. While it also encourages them to go even further than teachers who are coming in who have not been sufficiently well educated to start with and then in three days of professional development we expect them to be ready to go with their kids. You can try to impose that much new work on people and expect that they will get it right immediately and help kids in. Your. Own. VOICE. New York places. New York Voices is made possible by the members of 13 additional funding provided by Michael t Martin welcome to New York Voices on Raphael on September 8th it was back to school in New York City but it was certainly not back to business as usual here at the old tweed courthouse. The location of the new

Department of Education. This building is the center of the most sweeping educational changes this city has seen in over a century. And today we'll be hearing about the hopes and fears of teachers parents and administrators at the start of this historic academic year. In addition to that it also has sample. Lessons in writing one of the changes is that we're moving towards a uniform curriculum throughout the New York public schools. I think this is been long overdue. Up to now when a student came in from another school I had no way of knowing if their English 3. Was my English 3. Most of the time it wasn't. It sounds obvious but for the past 20 or so years it has been far from obvious in New York City public schools. In the last few weeks prior to school beginning we've been providing

training for a number of levels. Read the read aloud is really the heart we've been doing workshops with them having study groups with and helping them plan what they're going to do for the start of the year and beyond. It's a matter of taking children from where they are. First of all understanding what they know and what they need to know are next and building the curriculum on that rather than saying everybody is at the same place at the same time and giving every child exactly the same curriculum movie or curriculum they basically gave you all the materials they gave you a teaching guide. They've been within the teaching guide it tells you you know what you should do all the different like components what. You should teach what books you should read what the strategy may be that you're learning from that book or where as now you still given the strategies and what you supposed to learn but you pick up the materials. I didn't always like. The books that we had to read or you know so this gives us a little more freedom.

What I had when I was growing up was mostly chalk and talk which pretty much any New York City student my age would have had OK. Teaching back then didn't even gauge all of the senses. I want students to be able to get up talk. Smell it touch it taste it and look at it. That's not because I'm trying to be fancy it's because it's good teaching. For first grade. This is something you might want to think about doing. We just got the curriculum boxes I believe I've received my boxes yesterday and school starts September the 8th which is next week next Monday. The children coming. In today is. Thursday. So I have. Friends. Saturday. And Sunday. To get familiar with the curriculum we should have gotten these materials some time in the middle of last semester. And I'm not I'm not a blame person I don't believe in that but it is a plain fact of life that three days of preparation to teach an entire

year is just not enough. You know this is part of education started initiating all these kind of changes at once so everybody was kind of everybody in administrator is and everyone was confused as far as like what their role was going to be. I think everyone is still kind of confused. And different people that I asked have different visions of what few new curriculum is supposed to be in terms of the teachers not quite knowing what they're doing. Perhaps some of them. Might need to go on with what they normally do. It's not as though they can do nothing because they don't know what the new curriculum means. If they know what this so-called curriculum is then they'll just get on with it. They're not sure of that the way they used to take you anyway they're not going to allow the kids to come to school and the teachers do nothing. I'm actually not that worried because I know the students and because I know whatever comes up I'll be able to help them transition into whatever happens. And it's kind of a

transition for everyone. Students educators administrators everyone. I feel very confident about Monday because at the the end of the day. The curriculum makes sense but the curriculum is not what's really going to drive this. I'm going to drive it. My respect for the students will drive it. Their desire to make something of themselves is going to drive it and the curriculum will be a tool. I happen to think this curriculum will be a good tool. Randi Weingarten is president of the U.S. the city's teachers union. I spoke with her at Union headquarters about the new curriculum. Randi as late as last January you were very positive about the changes that were being proposed by the mayor and the chancellor for the school system and they were already being implemented. But since May you've been one of the loudest critics of those changes and particularly of how the new curriculum is being

implemented or put in place. Why the change. Off of the mayor's speech in January I was very excited about the parameters he had outlined. But when the rubber hits the road it's what happens in classrooms between children and teachers and in there was no part of the implementation that included teachers. And so when you boil all of the conflict down it comes to the piece of ensuring that the teachers who actually make it happen have to have a real role in shaping it. And they had none. The issue is do people have an input and are people engaged in the process. And sadly what's happened is that. This is the first administration a very very long time that looks as at teachers as colleagues in a wheel as opposed to individuals that have a lot to

offer children and the chancellor and the mayor have a very kind of old line management view that the union only negotiates salaries and they should not have a role in any of these other things. Now one of the biggest complaints that I've read that you've had with the implementation of the new curriculum is that the teachers have had have not had enough time to acquire the skills of the new curriculum required. But some of your critics say that in fact. Many of the opportunities that the chancellor has come up with to train the new teachers the new curriculum you have either. Rejected or been dismissive. How do you respond to that. Our critics are going to criticize us regardless of anything we do. I think people are looking to see if I would not encourage my members to take the summer training. I wouldn't do that.

In fact. Our teacher centers a UFTA teacher centers trained over forty five hundred teachers this summer and the new programs that you could call that a volunteer training program that the chancellor wanted implemented. You did say that it was a desperate act. No I didn't. What I said was when the training schedule came out a week before the summer started what I said was This was unfortunate because teachers would now put in a terrible bind because most teachers if you know teachers most teachers by March or April had their summer schedule set so that when you come up with the training opportunities in the second or third or fourth week in June you put people in a bind because they've already committed. And that's what I said. Do you have any problems with the content of this new curriculum you know some critics say that. What was promised was fundamental three

Rs the old tradition. I think what we got was a kind of quintessential progressive soft subjective curriculum do you have any problem with that. And then I think the critics are by and large right in that regard and I wish frankly that we were at a stage where the teachers had much more role and much more discretion in what they taught and how they taught it. As long as it was aligned to standards same time we believe that the school system has a responsibility to give the teachers teaching materials a lot of the of the program matics thrust here. Was. More focused on Whole Language and on reading of books which is really important. But what we know about children particularly all the research from the National Institute of Health and others talk about how kids need to code words they need to understand the fine explain need to understand how to decipher things on a step by step basis. The best

system is something that's balance and that's meld that melds both. And it is weak on the phonics and the back to the basics work. We would not have withdrawn our support simply on that issue though we would have said and continue to say let's work on it let's work on it let's work on it every day Max. It's probably a terrific program but it takes a really that's the new math program but takes a really really really long time to learn it and to do it well. You can't try to impose that much new work on people and expect that they will get it right immediately and help kids immediately. The chance for the week before the new school year started addressing a group of teachers said the teachers the administrators and the support staff have to be behind them. Will the teachers be behind these changes when all is said and done. Look the teachers always rise to the occasion. Teachers want what kids need. We want every single school to be a

school. Parents want to send their children where educators want to work. And so we will do what we can do but at the end of the day people have to feel that there was some shared ownership. And what's happened now is that the system was remade according to the Mehr and the chancellor's view of it. But the schools themselves were not part of that mission. But ultimately if we don't believe that a curriculum is working if we don't believe a book is appropriate for fourth grade or if we don't believe that teachers had enough opportunity to align the curriculum with what they believe they ought to be teaching. If we didn't believe in children we wouldn't call it out if we didn't care we wouldn't call it out because we care so much we're going to call those things out. The lamb is deputy chancellor for teaching and learning. It was chiefly responsible for selecting the

math and reading curriculums. Now in most of the city's public schools I spoke with her at the Tweed courthouse. When will we know if the changes that you've implemented are working. Well it will take some time to really get as to where we want to be but we should be able to see positive indicators. You know that well point or point us in the right direction. So I believe that after a year's time after that two years after three years we should be able to see track record number of people have said that while the mayor promised traditional back to basics curricula. What we got instead was what they called progressive curricular which is much less structured much less teacher directed and according to the critics much less successful particularly for poor students. Well I would say that our curriculums have balanced that one that it certainly takes into consideration the need to learn basic skills for example in mathematics as

well as phonics would consider that very important. But we also know that we are educating our children for us for the future not for all not for what we have been used to. So that means that they will need to have skills of comprehending what they read been able to evaluate summarize to be able to infer they would be able to. Do problem solving to apply their knowledge to new situations. I think that the curriculum that we have selected does both it gives our students a very strong foundation in the basics while it also encourages them to go even further. You know if if a teacher sees that this is not working they'll be flexible. They have flexibility to change it substantially. Well they'll have flexibility to use different pieces of the program. I remember here the aim is that we want every student to be a reader than infect what we do is something that's extraordinary. We try to differentiate instruction the

pending and the child's knowledge. So based on assessments they will be administer the first week in October we will determine which one of Howard kids can can't proceed because they are really on target in which children would need some kind of an intervention early on that will be very structured so they can also be successful. Well what about the point that some have made that I mention that in poorer districts even a balance system like like the one that you can post. Studies have shown that they're not as good for them for poor students and when I strike then the tradition I think of it is unconscionable that that kind of distinction would be made suggesting that poor children somehow need a more role in the chemical curriculum and the longest and only stays there. I disagree completely I mean is of course not that these children lag anything except more structure and more and more

access to literacy at home. And that's why they need it at school. Well I think they we need to do literacy in schools still of course we do. But to suggest that poor children only need the very structured programs I I don't think that there holds true in fact they are in many instances not only in New York City but across the nation where a rigorous curriculum you know can definitely be implemented with poor children in they can be successful. But what about the argument that the teachers per se the teachers themselves were not brought into the fold sort of speak. To discuss to converse about what curriculum would ultimately be I think in what and how to implement. I think that teachers who are using balance literacy but this is not a new idea. So I think that teachers you know were instrumental in selecting that because we saw some of the success in our schools with with this

approach. So you didn't think that you had to bring him in and literally talk to them because they're used to and I figured that they had already been using it and it's not that I haven't spoken to the teacher side there in fact in every school visit you obviously speak to teachers and you asked about at least for me I'm always interested in learning about the literacy program or in the mathematics program. And in literacy those sorts on there was much more of a consensus than in nearly any other area in terms of the delivery. You know in that timeline we obviously knew that it we had. Kind of like a sense of urgency in that we need to do something that is more focused that builds sun and the efforts of our New York teachers and they would provide them with appropriate tools and support system so they can live better and what about the claim again from the teachers you know others that the teachers just don't have enough time.

I mean this is a complex curricula and that they just didn't have sufficient time to. Well I think that in the South you know what in literacy I mean is not it was not that unknown to them because it was building a practice that they had been implemented for many years now when it came to mathematics especially with the elementary teacher that teaches both the literacy in the mathematics. I think that that was a good argument. And so we gave our schools the option they could defer implementing mathematics for a year. They could implement K through five or the third option was just to implement K through to now if we didn't look at that in a year from now. If you look at it and you see that they're not where you expected them to be. And two years from now if you look at them and they're still not where you expect them to be. I mean is there a will in this department the freedom to change it. Of course nothing is for ever. And in fact

we would advocate that to continue to do something that doesn't produce ourselves means that we need to change. In fact that's why we're trying to right now. While teachers and educators are adjusting to the new curriculums. Parents and students who are doing their best to get ready for a season of learning. We spoke to some of them on opening day about their hopes and fears for the new school reforms. Well I'm excited about it you know I think I want to give it a chance because. There's so many things that have been wrong with the system and it's the. Normal. Bureaucracy that. I'm excited about the changes I'm willing to give it a chance. It's difficult to. Determine because we haven't gone to any of them. To see what the new curriculum is it's my understanding that. We have. Already had the new math. Which is very good. Looking forward to seeing what happens with the new reading curriculum. My hopes are that it will make us one of the best in the nation.

I mean I think the jury's out. I think that I think this will be the first full year with new changes and I think that. You know I think that as long as they can maintain a good education it'll be fine. I hope it's change for the better especially the math program. I wasn't. Very happy with the math. Program. Previously. You know the changes are there. There's not much you can do about that. So. Wait and see. And trust right. Well we have to try anything to. Raise up these kids I mean they're not doing that great in anything that will help them to educate them a little better. Way. My fear is that. The changes me. To do some of those things are the basis of. You know the I'm really concerned about is the. Take away power. Of the principals. That's what the centralizing sort of take it or cover mentality to schools. Which I think is a big mistake. I

mean I guess the jury's out as we see but. You know the coffee room long enough to know that. These might work. You know maybe he's right maybe we're wrong but let's see what happens. Eva Moskowitz is chair of the city council's education committee. I spoke with her outside P.S. 6 her alma mater on the first day of school. Eva do you believe that the very dramatic changes that have are beginning to take place today in The New York City school system. That they will be successful. I think that the changes that Chancellor Klein and Mayor Bloomberg have proposed are the most dramatic in the last hundred years that we've seen in the school system. I think we will see some improvements. I actually don't think there are sufficient to get the job done. I still think that what we're looking at is rationalization of an irrational system. And there are many more changes that need to happen in order to solve our educational crisis.

Talk to us tell us what are some of those changes that. These dramatic changes don't include. We have teachers coming into the system who are very very hardworking and very very well intentioned. But for example are not adequately well trained in the fundamentals of teaching a child to read month by month which is the literacy and everyday mathematics in particular our very challenging curriculum. And we have teachers who are coming in. Who have not been sufficiently well educated to start with another which they haven't gotten the training they need at the schools of education and then in three days of professional development we expect them to be ready to go with our kids. The other hand what was the chancellor's supposed to do when you start. You gotta start somewhere. And I applaud the chancellor for having the courage to make an order out of chaos and I think over time we will get the bumps out of the road and and teachers will be able to live up to the demanding expectations. So do you not agree with Randi Weingarten the president of the teachers union when she says that

the mayor and the Chancellor bit off more than they could chew and in other words that they try too much at once. Well I agree with her in a practical sense in that today and tomorrow and in six months our teachers are not going to be ready to teach every day mathematics to take an example that is an extremely challenging curriculum. On the other hand I I think that Chancellor Klein was right to. Make the changes. I mean you gotta start somewhere all at once without staggering it. Look. What we had in the past. Was terrible. We had no training. We had professional development that was worse than useless often what's going to happen to all the students this year. If as you say the teachers to begin with were poorly trained and on top of that they're getting this new curricula which people say is very difficult. I mean you and others say it's very difficult. I mean by the end of the year these kids going to learn anything.

Well remember they're not learning much now. So so let's end it to be said repeatedly because sometimes we build up the past as this. You know we look back in the stoutly as if things were fine. Sixty percent of our elementary school kids can't read. Seventy five percent of our middle schools have flunked the statewide standard so I don't think this is going to make things worse and we've got little to lose. We have little to lose and we have potentially much to gain if in a multi-year process we can get it right. But I feel for the teachers it is overwhelming and the working conditions are terrible. The pay is still not adequate despite the pay raise for starting teachers. And so I understand Randy's perspective this is a lot and in very difficult conditions but I think it's necessary to start somewhere. Some critics say that. Although the mayor. Promised a back to basics kind of curriculum and in literacy and traditional math what we're really getting is quintessential progressive education. They say this

is failed in other systems particularly for in poor school districts and it's bound to fail here. Progressive Education can be done well and traditional education can be done well. It's all a matter of how well you do it. The second thing to remember is curriculum does not a good education make. I'd much prefer to have a good teacher. Than an excellent curriculum. Finally we need both. But but the teacher is so much more important in the curriculum. A good teacher can. Figure out a good curriculum and make a bad curriculum work. The final thing I would say is that I tend to agree with the critics. I think Month by month is a little bit of a misnomer. It's a fairly language oriented approach. Most of our students need more. Basic. Phonics instruction. What are we going to know. If we. Are. Going the right direction. One in every three New York

City public schools is failing miserably. Not slightly miserable. We have nowhere to go but up. And that's it for this edition of New York Voices. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next time. New York Voices is made possible by the members of 13 additional funding provided by Michael Moore.