Chicago Matters; Protect Yourself: Teaching Your Children About AIDS

<v Speaker>[music] AIDS is prevented by um you can watch, watch who you <v Speaker>play with watch who you're with at times. <v Speaker>Um be careful what you eat of. <v Speaker>You prevent AIDS by uh sex- <v Speaker>sexual intercourse. <v Valerie>I wish I would knew more to protect myself <v Valerie>and then I'm sorry well, I'm not, I'm still not that, but I still got it. <v Speaker>Oh, wait, from kissing can you get it? <v Michael Thurnherr>I was infected in my teens. <v Michael Thurnherr>I did not have any AIDS education until it was probably already too late to prevent <v Michael Thurnherr>me from getting the HIV infection. <v Michael Thurnherr>So, you know, I mean, I think I'm a clear example of somebody who could have benefited <v Michael Thurnherr>from such an education. <v Announcer>Next on WTTW Journal, Protect Yourself Teaching Your Children <v Announcer>about AIDS. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Hello, I'm Dr. Bruce Dan. You've just met some fifth and sixth grade children who've had <v Dr. Bruce Dan>little or no AIDS education. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>You've also heard from some people infected with the HIV virus.

<v Dr. Bruce Dan>People whose lives might have been different if they'd been better informed about the <v Dr. Bruce Dan>virus. AIDS is a disease which is contracted mainly through sexual activity <v Dr. Bruce Dan>or needles used in drug abuse. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>And we're here to ask the question, do young people have the right to know how AIDS can <v Dr. Bruce Dan>be contracted or preventive? <v Dr. Bruce Dan>You know, there are a number of social problems and health issues affecting children <v Dr. Bruce Dan>today. Dangerous drugs. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Teenage pregnancy. Sexually transmitted diseases. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>And tragically, all of them lead to AIDS, a disease that kills. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>And this leads us to our topic of discussion, AIDS and AIDS education for our children. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>It's a subject which is tough enough for adults to deal with. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>The difficulty expands enormously when it comes to educating our kids. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>But it's about time for parents to face this epidemic. <v Michael Thurnherr>It's unrealistic to say that high school or high school age kids aren't having sex, <v Michael Thurnherr>aren't having heterosexual sex, aren't having homosexual sex because they are. <v Michael Thurnherr>I was, ya know. <v Announcer>Michael Thurnherr is 23. He tested positive for the AIDS virus when he <v Announcer>was 20. Like most Americans, he began experimenting with sex in his teens.

<v Announcer>No one ever told him he was risking his life. <v Michael Thurnherr>I was, in fact, in my teens. I did not have any AIDS education until <v Michael Thurnherr>it was probably already too late to prevent me from getting the HIV infection. <v Michael Thurnherr>So, you know, I think I'm a clear example of somebody who could have benefited from such <v Michael Thurnherr>an education. <v Announcer>As a gay white male, Michael belongs to a community that was the first to feel the full <v Announcer>impact of this epidemic. But currently, the percentage of AIDS cases contracted <v Announcer>through male to male sex is declining, while infection through the sharing of needles <v Announcer>and heterosexual sex is on the rise and the people being hardest hit are <v Announcer>disproportionately black and Hispanic. <v Valerie>I wish I would knew more to protect myself. <v Announcer>This young woman, we'll call her Valerie, is 18 black and eight months <v Announcer>pregnant. Last year, she tested positive for HIV infection. <v Announcer>There's a 30 percent chance that her baby will also be positive. <v Announcer>She had no idea that she was at risk.

<v Announcer>She'd gone to the hospital with what appeared to be a rash. <v Announcer>She was eventually tested for the AIDS virus. <v Valerie>Then one day I get a letter in the mail and this guy from some guy don't even know. <v Valerie>But he says he was the doctor. And then I go and see him, and he tells me <v Valerie>this. And then, you know, I don't know how to you know, my feelings is doing this way <v Valerie>that away. And then it's like I felt like one committed suicide, <v Valerie>then I was like, well, why this happening to me, you know? <v Valerie>And then for a minute, I was like, how it happened to me? <v Announcer>Like an increasing number of young black and Hispanic female teenagers. <v Announcer>Valerie was exposed through unprotected sex with her boyfriend. <v Announcer>She didn't know that a condom was for anything else but birth control. <v Announcer>She never thought seriously that her boyfriend's behaviors could in any way place her <v Announcer>at risk. <v Aida Giachello>It's those that live in certain geographical areas with extreme poverty. <v Aida Giachello>Those who already, in the case of women, for example, already dating <v Aida Giachello>guys who are I.V. drug user, who are already exposed

<v Aida Giachello>to a series of conditions where they have less knowledge about AIDS prevention <v Aida Giachello>and education, where they have low self-esteem, where you have a high incidence of school <v Aida Giachello>dropout rate, where you have the whole characteristic of a low income <v Aida Giachello>group. That's where the AIDS cases are happening. <v Novella Dudley>We're seeing more people of color, more <v Novella Dudley>women in their childbearing years and more children now <v Novella Dudley>with the virus. <v Announcer>Novella Dudley is 42 years old. <v Announcer>Four years ago, she tested positive for the AIDS virus. <v Announcer>The news of her infection came to her as a complete shock, as did the revelation of <v Announcer>how she'd been exposed. <v Novella Dudley>I asked him if he was having sex with males and he told me, yes. <v Novella Dudley>To make it short, I was infected by a man who <v Novella Dudley>lived with for eight years who didn't choose tell me that he was bisexual. <v Announcer>Novella travels all over the Chicago area and the United States speaking to health care <v Announcer>professionals, teachers, parents, church groups and children about the threat of

<v Announcer>AIDS and about the plight of people like herself who'd been infected. <v Announcer>She's the coordinator of support services for the Chicago Women's AIDS Project <v Announcer>and a peer educator with Cook County Hospital's Women and Children with AIDS program. <v Announcer>Of all the groups she speaks to, she's most concerned about kids. <v Announcer>In her view, they are the ones most threatened. <v Novella Dudley>I find that a lot of youngsters feel that they're immortal, that <v Novella Dudley>they can't die, that nothing will happen to them. <v Novella Dudley>And yes, I felt that way when I was young, too. <v Novella Dudley>But it does happen and it can happen and it is happening. <v Novella Dudley>And I let them know that I have talked to people who it has happened to. <v Novella Dudley>And that's one message I give to them, <v Novella Dudley>that the virus is striking young people and it's striking them fast. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Let's take a look at some of the latest statistics regarding AIDS and teenage sexual <v Dr. Bruce Dan>behavior. The reported cases of U.S.

<v Dr. Bruce Dan>adolescents with AIDS has increased 40 percent in the last two years. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>In the U.S. the average age for first sexual experience is 16 for girls <v Dr. Bruce Dan>and 15 and a half for boys. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Sixty percent of all U.S. high school seniors have used illicit drugs. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>And the World Health Organization projects that in less than 10 years, up to 10 <v Dr. Bruce Dan>million children worldwide will be infected with the HIV virus. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Well, we'll be introducing you to doctors and experts who deal with AIDS on a daily basis <v Dr. Bruce Dan>and the concerned parents, teachers and teenagers who've joined us in the audience. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>And we'll take a look at different approaches to AIDS education in schools throughout <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Chicago and its suburbs. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Well, joining me to examine some of the major health issues facing our children today are <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Dr. Madeleine Shallowitz, a behavioral and developmental pediatrician at La Rabbitta <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Children's Hospital, and Dr. Horace Smith, a specialist in hematology <v Dr. Bruce Dan>and oncology at Children's Memorial Hospital. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Dr. Smith, let me ask you first. What are some of the major health issues that are really

<v Dr. Bruce Dan>affecting our children today? <v Dr. Horace Smith>Well, health issues now, when kids mainly revolve around, again, family and <v Dr. Horace Smith>lifestyle issues. As pediatricians, our role really is education <v Dr. Horace Smith>and it begins from the mother being pregnant and then begin to deal with children <v Dr. Horace Smith>with chronic disease, some acute disease, and just a myriad of diseases that we <v Dr. Horace Smith>have to deal with. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Dr. Shallowitz, how are these linked to AIDS and HIV infection? <v Dr. Madeleine Shallowitz>Many of the issues that we talk about with adolescents are lifestyle issues. <v Dr. Madeleine Shallowitz>Should they get involved in sex? Should they get involved in drugs, alcohol? <v Dr. Madeleine Shallowitz>Uh, can they run the risk of getting pregnant or getting a sexually transmitted disease? <v Dr. Madeleine Shallowitz>And AIDS is a sexually transmitted disease, which is one of the number of things that <v Dr. Madeleine Shallowitz>adolescents need to deal with. And probably the worst in that when they get infected, the <v Dr. Madeleine Shallowitz>chances are the disease will be lethal. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>What do kids really know about AIDS at this point in time? <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Here it is, 10 years after the epidemic. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>You have a good idea of what they know, what they don't know? <v Dr. Horace Smith>I'm not sure that we have a good idea. I think that that is different in different age

<v Dr. Horace Smith>groups populations. However, I think it's very important and clearly seen that <v Dr. Horace Smith>active information has to be gotten out to this age group that is so <v Dr. Horace Smith>vitally important for us. And is at a risk for HIV infection. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>What age group we're talking about? Are we talking about 17 year olds, 13 year olds. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>What age group are we really when we focus on kids and AIDS, who should we be talking to? <v Dr. Madeleine Shallowitz>That really depends on the community that you're talking about. <v Dr. Madeleine Shallowitz>In some communities where sexual activity becomes or comes earlier and more frequently, <v Dr. Madeleine Shallowitz>that issue needs to be tackled with a younger age group. <v Dr. Madeleine Shallowitz>And we're really talking about 8, 9, 10 year olds. <v Dr. Madeleine Shallowitz>The problem that you run into when you talk to children of that age is what can they <v Dr. Madeleine Shallowitz>really understand of the information that we give them? <v Dr. Madeleine Shallowitz>Are they really just going to be parrots of what we tell them? <v Dr. Madeleine Shallowitz>Will they be able to tell us it's the HIV 1 virus, but not really know what the <v Dr. Madeleine Shallowitz>connection of that is to to a disease? <v Dr. Madeleine Shallowitz>They really don't understand that cold, that colds are caused by viruses. <v Dr. Madeleine Shallowitz>So can we really expect them to understand that it's a virus that happens when they have <v Dr. Madeleine Shallowitz>sex that's going to give them a disease.

<v Dr. Bruce Dan>A tough problem. Well, before we continue our discussion about AIDS education, <v Dr. Bruce Dan>let's quickly look at some of the scientific facts about AIDS and the HIV virus. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>You might know about these facts, but do your children? <v Dr. Bruce Dan>The AIDS virus called the human immunodeficiency virus or HIV for short <v Dr. Bruce Dan>causes this damage by attacking one particular cell, the T cell in the body's immune <v Dr. Bruce Dan>system and the T-cells, the co-ordinator of the entire immune system, much like the <v Dr. Bruce Dan>conductor of an orchestra. And without it, the immune system becomes disorganized and can <v Dr. Bruce Dan>no longer fight infection. Even usually harmless bacteria and viruses can <v Dr. Bruce Dan>be deadly to a person whose immune system has been left defenseless by the loss of <v Dr. Bruce Dan>effective T cells. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>HIV is most often transmitted sexually from men to women by infected semen. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>But it can also be transmitted from women to men, from infected vaginal fluid, <v Dr. Bruce Dan>from mother to baby during the birth process and even to babies from infected mothers <v Dr. Bruce Dan>during breastfeeding. Can also be spread by sharing contaminated needles. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>And even with our modern screening techniques, rarely through transfusions of blood

<v Dr. Bruce Dan>or blood products. AIDS, like every other sexually transmitted disease, can <v Dr. Bruce Dan>be prevented by total abstinence. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>For those engaging in sex by wearing a condom. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Since there's no known cure for the disease, these two options and education <v Dr. Bruce Dan>are the only protection we have against AIDS. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Now, no one would willingly withhold information from children about the dangers of <v Dr. Bruce Dan>drugs, of smoking or alcohol abuse or diseases like food poisoning or <v Dr. Bruce Dan>rubella, German measles. So let's apply the same logic to the AIDS crisis, <v Dr. Bruce Dan>because it is a crisis. And if you don't tell your kids about AIDS, they may find <v Dr. Bruce Dan>out about it too late. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Christina Lewis is a spokesperson with the National Association of People with AIDS. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>She's 22 and was date raped when she was 19. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>She thinks that's when she was infected with the HIV virus. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>And this young woman, whom we'll call Shelley, is a peer educator in Chicago. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>She teaches other teenagers about AIDS, although she's not infected herself, <v Dr. Bruce Dan>members of her family are.

<v Dr. Bruce Dan>And as you heard, Novella Dudley is the coordinator of support services at Chicago <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Women's AIDS Project. She was infected with the HIV virus by her bisexual <v Dr. Bruce Dan>lover. Christina, let me ask you first. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Do you think if you had been educated at AIDS early on when you were a teenager, it would <v Dr. Bruce Dan>have helped any? <v Christina Lewis>I think it probably would have, because what was true for for me was true for a lot <v Christina Lewis>of my my peers at the time was that AIDS was something that we only <v Christina Lewis>thought happened to homosexuals, IV drug users. <v Christina Lewis>And if we weren't those people, then we didn't have to worry about AIDS. <v Christina Lewis>All we had to worry about was getting pregnant, um which isn't true anymore. <v Christina Lewis>And it actually wasn't true for us then either. <v Christina Lewis>Um only later on in life did I find out that it was true. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Shelley, let me ask you. You're a peer educator. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>You talk to kids about AIDS. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>We're now talking to fifth and sixth graders about things like abstinence. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>That's something we didn't do 10 or 15 years ago. <v Shelley>It's harder on the kids now because there's more <v Shelley>there's more questions for them to ask adults.

<v Shelley>And they don't know exactly what to ask because now they're being told about sex. <v Shelley>Now they're being told about AIDS. <v Shelley>And this is a rough time for them. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>What should they know? Let me ask you, Novella. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>At what age do we teach these kids things. I mean, how far do we go? <v Dr. Bruce Dan>What do we tell them? <v Novella Dudley>You tell them everything um there is about the virus as much as their minds <v Novella Dudley>can absorb. I've talked to 8 year olds who are sexually active. <v Novella Dudley>Um, that's when I've had to educate them on just about everything about AIDS. <v Novella Dudley>So it depends on what these children are doing and <v Novella Dudley>um how old they are is how how much you tell them and what you tell them. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>I guess it's an individual basis. Let me introduce you to someone else. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Could you stand up, please? This is Ramon Bwaynerostro, who is the head of the uh <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Hispanic Health Alliance. In the Hispanic community, it's a very different community. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Not only is there a language barrier, but uh data is shown there's a lot of denial in the <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Hispanic community about the whole disease itself.

<v Ramon Bwaynerostro>Yes, um to kind of somewhat repeat what Ms. <v Ramon Bwaynerostro>Lewis said. Among the Hispanic community, there's also many other issues that are related <v Ramon Bwaynerostro>to HIV infection and possibility of transmission in working with <v Ramon Bwaynerostro>kids, especially because of the denial. <v Ramon Bwaynerostro>You need to work backwards and you need to start at basics like self-esteem and teaching <v Ramon Bwaynerostro>them to love themselves and to care about themselves enough to want to prevent becoming <v Ramon Bwaynerostro>infected by HIV. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Let me ask anybody on the panel, how do you really teach kids about AIDS? <v Dr. Bruce Dan>I mean, it's tough when you're a fifth grader to understand about health and biology and <v Dr. Bruce Dan>the things I took in health class mean, how do you teach about a disease that can <v Dr. Bruce Dan>actually kill you? <v Novella Dudley>It's a plus for me because I am infected and I let them know that this is a virus <v Novella Dudley>that kills. There is no cure for it. <v Novella Dudley>And that anyone could be at risk. <v Christina Lewis>I think that's an advantage that I have also in teaching kids, is that they can look at <v Christina Lewis>me and they can see an example of, you know, this is out there and it's infecting <v Christina Lewis>people just like, you know, you and me, everybody. <v Christina Lewis>You know, it doesn't really matter who you are.

<v Christina Lewis>It really matters what you do. <v Christina Lewis>Um and I think it's also very important in terms of educating um our young people is that <v Christina Lewis>we be very reality based. <v Christina Lewis>You know, we can we can try and we can suggest abstinence to them. <v Christina Lewis>And it is 100 percent foolproof. <v Christina Lewis>But the problem is that we have to always realize that not all the kids are <v Christina Lewis>going to listen to that message. And we have to try and arm them with the knowledge of <v Christina Lewis>if they're not going to be abstinent. This is what you need to do. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Well, we have a lot of kids and older people in the audience who probably will listen <v Dr. Bruce Dan>today, well they have some questions? Go ahead and ask your question and who you want to <v Dr. Bruce Dan>ask it to? <v Speaker>Christine. How long did it take for you to know you had the AIDS virus? <v Christina Lewis>Um, I donated blood when I was 21. <v Christina Lewis>Um, I was completely unaware that I'd been exposed. <v Christina Lewis>You know, again, I was I was completely in denial of the fact that anything like this <v Christina Lewis>could happen to me. So I had no idea. <v Christina Lewis>I just went down to a blood mobile. I donated blood, and that's how I found out. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Let me ask you, Novella, I mean, you were infected. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Not only didn't you know you're infected, but you had no idea that your husband was at

<v Dr. Bruce Dan>risk himself and transmit it to you. <v Novella Dudley>That's right. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Nobody really knows. I guess if they're with somebody who may be at risk. <v Novella Dudley>So anyone could be at risk is what I try to say, that anyone could be at <v Novella Dudley>risk. The thing is that you try to know your partner as best <v Novella Dudley>as you can. And had I really tried to know this man <v Novella Dudley>better, I probably would have looked at things that would have led me to believe that <v Novella Dudley>he was having bisexual affairs. <v Novella Dudley>But I didn't. I knew nothing about AIDS. <v Novella Dudley>I knew nothing about the virus. And I became symptomatic with <v Novella Dudley>HIV in 1985. However, I wasn't tested until 1987. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>And we have another question over here. Yes, sir. <v Speaker>I'm curious. I've been hearing about AIDS for years now. <v Speaker>How much did you know about AIDS before you were before you contracted <v Speaker>AIDS? <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Maybe each of you could tell us that. <v Novella Dudley>I didn't know a thing. Like I said, in 1985 I started having symptoms, <v Novella Dudley>but I didn't know what these symptoms were.

<v Novella Dudley>I went around for 2 years to doctors who didn't seem to <v Novella Dudley>think that I was at risk because I wasn't using I.V. <v Novella Dudley>drugs and they didn't seem to ask any other questions. <v Novella Dudley>So for over a little over 2 years I went around undiagnosed. <v Novella Dudley>And then in '87, when I thought that it wasn't anything <v Novella Dudley>physically, it had to be mentally a psychiatrist finally um brought <v Novella Dudley>me down to earth and we talked about it and I was tested. <v Novella Dudley>I was devastated. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Christina. <v Christina Lewis>I think uh for me, too. I thought I knew a lot about the disease. <v Christina Lewis>I thought, you know, I mean, I knew what safe sex was and I knew how you practice safe <v Christina Lewis>sex. I wasn't, of course, practicing it. <v Christina Lewis>But I mean, I knew what it was and I knew what the disease was. <v Christina Lewis>But I didn't know really that much about the implications of it. <v Christina Lewis>I knew, you know, how you could get exposed. <v Christina Lewis>But I didn't really know the difference between HIV positive and what the word AIDS <v Christina Lewis>really meant. Um, I didn't understand those really important factors and that sort

<v Christina Lewis>of held me back when I finally found out that I was HIV positive. <v Christina Lewis>All of a sudden I had a million questions I didn't have the answer to, but I learned <v Christina Lewis>quickly. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>I have one more question up here. Yes, sir. <v Speaker>Um my question I'd like to address the total panel, and that is um <v Speaker>the church seems to be ignoring this this issue. <v Speaker>What specific role do you think the church um <v Speaker>should be playing in this uh crises <v Speaker>as it relates to the HIV virus? <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Church is certainly a powerful social group. <v Novella Dudley>It is, especially the black church. And when I started peer education, I started in my <v Novella Dudley>church where most of our youth came and their parents. <v Novella Dudley>They brought their parents. So it was great. <v Novella Dudley>So if churches could have a program like an AIDS educational <v Novella Dudley>day and we did it on Youth Day, which was great, and it was it went real well. <v Novella Dudley>Now, a lot of churches may not accept that this accept this,

<v Novella Dudley>but they need to. And I'm glad that my church did and a lot of other black churches <v Novella Dudley>that I was able to go in and do peer education session in did. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Christina, how do you feel about not only the church, but other community based <v Dr. Bruce Dan>organizations that have a very strong social impact on the way people believe in act? <v Christina Lewis>Well, I think it is really important, especially since the church is so focused on <v Christina Lewis>family, that I think that's where the emphasis really needs to come from the family. <v Christina Lewis>Um, we need to talk about this disease and we need to talk about sex more openly <v Christina Lewis>than we have before. We can't just go on and ignore it and hope that our kids, you <v Christina Lewis>know, pick it up somewhere on TV or in school or wherever. <v Christina Lewis>We need to make sure that that education is taking place, um whether it's in the church <v Christina Lewis>or the family or wherever. <v Christina Lewis>We just have to make sure that that education is getting through. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Shelley, let's talk about pure education for children. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>You do that all the time. What can you tell us about it? <v Shelley>Mostly, I work with teenagers my age from 13 to 19, <v Shelley>and I mostly talk about their sex life and

<v Shelley>how they more or less get into more or less peer pressure and how peer <v Shelley>pressure is concerning sex. <v Shelley>And what have they learned from their parents? <v Shelley>What have they learned from their books? What have they learned from teachers and from <v Shelley>that point on, I focus on what they're supposed to know, what they need to know and <v Shelley>teach 'em about prevention. <v Shelley>What exactly is preventing and teaching my HIV <v Shelley>and AIDS 'cause a lot of them all they know is AIDS. <v Shelley>They don't know the difference between HIV and AIDS. <v Shelley>What is HIV? What's AIDS? <v Shelley>What's the disease? What's the virus? What could kill you? <v Shelley>What cannot kill you. And from that point on, we focus on that and expands. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Certainly they need to learn something about it. We all do. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>And, you know, knowledge is the key to staying alive. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>The Chicago Public School System has a mandatory health education program that includes <v Dr. Bruce Dan>information on AIDS. In addition, schools can choose from 17 other supplemental <v Dr. Bruce Dan>AIDS education programs in association with community agencies.

<v Dr. Bruce Dan>Each school can select the one which they feel most comfortable with. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Each program is guided by a different approach, but the goal is always the same to <v Dr. Bruce Dan>educate children about the dangers of AIDS. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>In 1988, Michael Reese Hospital developed a program targeted at fifth and sixth graders <v Dr. Bruce Dan>that provides basic information on AIDS, HIV infection and prevention. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>One of the health educators is Felicia Rodriguez, a master's candidate at the University <v Dr. Bruce Dan>of Chicago. <v Felicia Rodriguez>We're targeting fifth and sixth graders in the black and Hispanic communities <v Felicia Rodriguez>in the Chicago Public School District. <v Felicia Rodriguez>Fifth and sixth graders are considered <v Felicia Rodriguez>a high risk group, particularly among black and Hispanics. <v Felicia Rodriguez>Why? Because the early onset of sexual activity, <v Felicia Rodriguez>their exposure to drugs and drug abusers, their denial <v Felicia Rodriguez>of negative consequences and their experimentation <v Felicia Rodriguez>with sex.

<v Felicia Rodriguez>Now, again, that's not to say, you know, blacks <v Felicia Rodriguez>and Hispanics, they're at it again doing something that's bad. <v Felicia Rodriguez>No, that's not what I'm saying at all. <v Felicia Rodriguez>I'm saying that those are facts. <v Felicia Rodriguez>That's the reality. And now we've got to do something about it. <v Felicia Rodriguez>We can't wait for these communities to uh, <v Felicia Rodriguez>we can't wait to see adolescents, young kids <v Felicia Rodriguez>contracting HIV and dying of AIDS. <v Felicia Rodriguez>It will be too late. Let's do it now. <v Felicia Rodriguez>Let's provide these prevention programs now, because I don't think there's any parent <v Felicia Rodriguez>out there who is willing to risk silence when it comes <v Felicia Rodriguez>to sex for their child's life. <v Andrew Boxer>Certainly a significant number of kids drop out of school before <v Andrew Boxer>they graduate high school. <v Andrew Boxer>And that number varies depending on what part of the city you're <v Andrew Boxer>in. But regardless of that, we thought that giving kids information before

<v Andrew Boxer>they drop out is one way of reaching kids and giving them some information <v Andrew Boxer>prior to their leaving the school system. <v Andrew Boxer>Because once they're out of the system, there's another prevention problem <v Andrew Boxer>that we have, which is how do you reach kids who are at risk, who are out on the streets, <v Andrew Boxer>perhaps, or just not in school? <v Felicia Rodriguez>Here's the puzzle. AIDS is the disease. <v Felicia Rodriguez>HIV is the virus. <v Felicia Rodriguez>Modes of transmission is how one person can give it to <v Felicia Rodriguez>another. <v Beverly Johnson Biehr>Some of the studies they're doing in the West Suburban Hospital I think um are showing <v Beverly Johnson Biehr>that our young girls, adolescents coming in that are giving birth are there's a very <v Beverly Johnson Biehr>high rate of HIV infection amongst the young adolescents. <v Beverly Johnson Biehr>And so we do with the problem is there and it's it's ready to become worse. <v Beverly Johnson Biehr>And um and so there isn't a whole lot of time to spare. <v Beverly Johnson Biehr>You know, with AIDS education, I guess that's why I was trying to say before that to try <v Beverly Johnson Biehr>to get the message out, but not to overreact. <v Beverly Johnson Biehr>I mean, you know, you have to get it within a context of a traditional, you know, <v Beverly Johnson Biehr>education program. We don't want to scare the kids because um first of all,

<v Beverly Johnson Biehr>scare tactics don't work with the ones that need to be scared. <v Beverly Johnson Biehr>And and they only scare the kids that don't need to be scared. <v Beverly Johnson Biehr>And so this works, this has been true of drug education and everything else. <v Beverly Johnson Biehr>So it's just a major you know, it's a step by step educational <v Beverly Johnson Biehr>process. And I feel strongly that that if it hasn't begun before, it has to <v Beverly Johnson Biehr>begin in fifth grade on up. <v Felicia Rodriguez>This is a choice. <v Felicia Rodriguez>No sex. Say abstinence. <v Felicia Rodriguez>[children repeat abstinence] I try very hard to emphasize <v Felicia Rodriguez>abstinence, monogamy, responsibility. <v Felicia Rodriguez>But uh again, you have to be you have to be careful. <v Felicia Rodriguez>And you can't be a dictator and you can't take control <v Felicia Rodriguez>of of these kids lives, um you, you <v Felicia Rodriguez>must, I think, remain neutral and not be critical. <v Felicia Rodriguez>No. Sex is a choice that you have. <v Felicia Rodriguez>Please, when you decide to go out with someone or

<v Felicia Rodriguez>get involved with someone or have a relationship with someone, and <v Felicia Rodriguez>later on, you might even decide that you want to get married. <v Felicia Rodriguez>I don't know. You might decide you want to live with someone. <v Felicia Rodriguez>I don't know. But what's very important is, is to be committed <v Felicia Rodriguez>to one person. <v Felicia Rodriguez>And it doesn't end there. You have to talk to that person. <v Felicia Rodriguez>You have to learn about that person, learn their habits. <v Felicia Rodriguez>What are they doing? What do they like to do? <v Felicia Rodriguez>What do they like to talk about? <v Felicia Rodriguez>Think before you do. <v Felicia Rodriguez>Do what? Think before you decide to have <v Felicia Rodriguez>sex. <v Latesha McCoy>She told us a lot of thing that I didn't know. <v Jenny Nambo>I thought it was educating and I think that they should do it to all kids <v Jenny Nambo>before before they turn into their teens. <v Announcer>Michael Reese Hospital was so pleased with the response to their program that they <v Announcer>decided to videotape one of Felicia's classroom presentations to be distributed <v Announcer>throughout Chicago's schools.

<v Announcer>The tape also includes dramatic situations that fifth and sixth graders may have <v Announcer>experienced. <v Child Actor 1>Guys, guys, why y'all worried about AIDS? <v Child Actor 1>We ain't had no blood transfusions and we like girls. <v Child Actor 1>Y'all worried for nothing man. 'Cause, you know, I'm pretty sure that mostly gay men get <v Child Actor 1>AIDS. <v Child Actor 2>Weren't you listening? Girls candefinitely get AIDS and straight guys too. <v Child Actor 3>And all those people who shoot drugs. <v Announcer>Although, Michael Reese health educators stress, abstinence and monogamy is the only 100 <v Announcer>percent way to prevent HIV infection. <v Announcer>They feel the necessity to talk frankly about sexual behavior and the importance of using <v Announcer>condoms. <v Felicia Rodriguez>Unprotected. <v Felicia Rodriguez>That's the key word. Unprotected sexual intercourse. <v Felicia Rodriguez>What's unprotected sexual intercourse? <v Student>Sex without a condo? <v Felicia Rodriguez>Sex without a condo very close. <v Felicia Rodriguez>Sex without a condom. <v Felicia Rodriguez>Condom. Sex without a condom.

<v Felicia Rodriguez>That's very important. <v Felicia Rodriguez>Was that embarrassing? <v Student 2>It's disgusting. <v Felicia Rodriguez>Disgusting. It's better to be embarrassed than to be dead. <v Felicia Rodriguez>[music] [Song: What's So Big About AIDS peformed by AIDS Educational Theatre] <v Announcer>AIDS Educational Theater began in 1987. <v Announcer>The company's philosophy is that youth, minorities and the urban poor do not have <v Announcer>easy access to traditional forms of education. <v Announcer>Yet sadly, they are the most at risk for HIV infection because of their lack of <v Announcer>information and their high risk behavior. <v Announcer>So they try and relay their message through song and dance. <v Announcer>This work is performed for elementary school children. <v Dr. Ana Manglano>Abstinence. Who knows what is abstinence in this class?

<v Announcer>Almost everyone agrees that sexual abstinence is the ideal means of AIDS prevention <v Announcer>for young people, but not everyone agrees on whether condom use should be part of AIDS <v Announcer>education. <v Dr. Marcella Myers>We want students to hear the good news that waiting until marriage <v Dr. Marcella Myers>to get involved in a sexual relationship is possible, normal, <v Dr. Marcella Myers>and healthy. <v Announcer>Dr. Marcella Myers, chairman of the Southwest Parents Committee and the director of that <v Announcer>group's abstinence education program. <v Dr. Ana Manglano>You have a power to make and it's your decisions. <v Dr. Ana Manglano>You have the power of controlling your instincts. <v Announcer>The program, which consists of two one hour sessions, is targeted at sixth, seventh <v Announcer>and eighth graders. Its goal is much broader than simply warning children about the <v Announcer>threat of AIDS. <v Dr. Ana Manglano>Important because most of them time young people confuse really <v Dr. Ana Manglano>true love with sex. <v Dr. Ana Manglano>And sex is part of love in the married life, but it's not <v Dr. Ana Manglano>all. Love involves much more.

<v Dr. Ana Manglano>All right. So probably if people say love is sex, all this, no. <v Dr. Ana Manglano>For <v Dr. Ana Manglano>love, you need all these other qualities here, and you need <v Dr. Ana Manglano>respect. You need caring. You need support. <v Dr. Ana Manglano>You need understanding. <v Dr. Ana Manglano>You need patience. You need all these ingredients and sex is part <v Dr. Ana Manglano>of showing this love, but is not all. <v Announcer>The program attempts to tell children some of the many reasons why sex before marriage is <v Announcer>unhealthy, unhealthy from a physical standpoint, as well as a social and moral <v Announcer>standpoint. Last year, the group presented their program in 15 schools, speaking <v Announcer>to nearly 2500 students. <v Announcer>The immediate reaction of these eighth graders at Nathan Davis Elementary School was <v Announcer>positive. <v Karen Flores>Everybody tells us that girls can get pregnant or get diseases, but <v Karen Flores>it's not really a complete explanation. <v Karen Flores>They don't give us a class like this.

<v Jimmy Guzman>I think it was really good because um I liked the part about the unselfishness and <v Jimmy Guzman>the selfishness, because it's really true. <v Jimmy Guzman>Most people use uh the other person just for the body. <v Jimmy Guzman>Which is um really a bad thing to do. <v Jesus Esquivel>It was educational. And you have you shouldn't have sex before you meet because you may <v Jesus Esquivel>get different kinds of diseases like AIDS. <v Announcer>But the question remains, if we were to arm children against the AIDS virus, is <v Announcer>it enough to simply tell them why it's important to abstain from sex and drug use? <v Announcer>Shouldn't they also be told about protecting themselves with condoms and not sharing <v Announcer>needles? <v Dr. Marcella Myers>The only problem is, I think with that type of approach is that you're really giving <v Dr. Marcella Myers>the child mixed messages and they're already getting mixed messages from <v Dr. Marcella Myers>television, from videos. <v Dr. Marcella Myers>And uh if we present, for example, all sides of the <v Dr. Marcella Myers>issue then and we bring up other options, then of course, the students <v Dr. Marcella Myers>will dismiss or put in the back of their mind the point we are trying to emphasize,

<v Dr. Marcella Myers>and that is abstinence is the only method that's 100 percent safe. <v AIDS Theatre Actor 1>I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore. <v Announcer>The Wizard of AIDS, which stands for. <v Announcer>Aware Individuals Deserving Survival is another AIDS educational theater <v Announcer>production aimed primarily at high school students delivering the safe sex <v Announcer>message with humor and compassion and without preaching. <v AIDS Theatre Actor 2>Do you advocate safe sex or unsafe sex? <v AIDS Theatre Actor 1>Oh, well, which is which? <v AIDS Theatre Actor 2>That's my point. If you're a good witch you'll advocate safe sex, which helps <v AIDS Theatre Actor 2>stop the spread of HIV. <v AIDS Theatre Actor 1>HIV? Don't you mean AIDS? <v AIDS Theatre Actor 2>No. HIV stands for human immunodeficiency <v AIDS Theatre Actor 2>virus and this is virus which infects the body. <v AIDS Theatre Actor 2>This infection may but does not always create a condition which is commonly <v AIDS Theatre Actor 2>known as AIDS Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome. <v AIDS Theatre Actor 1>Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome.

<v AIDS Theatre Actor 1>What does that mean? <v AIDS Theatre Actor 2>What it basically means is a condition in which the body's natural ability to fight <v AIDS Theatre Actor 2>off infection. <v AIDS Theatre Actor 1>Oh! The immune system. <v AIDS Theatre Actor 2>Well aren't you just teachers pet. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Well, joining us to discuss Chicago area AIDS education programs are Andrew Boxer, <v Dr. Bruce Dan>project director for Michael Reese Hospital's AIDS education program, and Lavern <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Gill, a sexual abstinence educator with the Southwest Parents Committee <v Dr. Bruce Dan>and Dwight Seals, project director of the Westside AIDS Education Intervention Network. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Let me ask you, Dr. Boxer, let me ask you first, though. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>We heard about mixed messages. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Are we really giving children mixed messages, telling about abstinence, wait till <v Dr. Bruce Dan>marriage, but use a condom? <v Andrew Boxer>I think we found in our program that most kids in fifth and sixth grade have some <v Andrew Boxer>basic ideas about AIDS, about sex and about condoms. <v Andrew Boxer>But these ideas, we've discovered are pretty distorted and inaccurate. <v Andrew Boxer>So I think we believe that it's important to talk to kids about all the ways in <v Andrew Boxer>which they can prevent HIV infection, including condoms.

<v Dr. Bruce Dan>Miss Gill, your your group talks about abstinence. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>It's very important that we watch that tape, which is very evocative, but fifth <v Dr. Bruce Dan>graders, these are prepubescent young boys and girls when they get to be 16 and 17 later <v Dr. Bruce Dan>on, do they remember these messages or do their peer pressure and natural urges take <v Dr. Bruce Dan>over? <v Lavern Gill>I think they do remember the messages later on, even though they are affected by it. <v Lavern Gill>You know, peer pressure, but they do remember the messages that we've given them. <v Lavern Gill>But they're not quick to follow what we've been talking about. <v Lavern Gill>But they do remember what we've talked about. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Now, you know, Chicago has a very high rate of teenage pregnancy, <v Dr. Bruce Dan>sexually transmitted diseases. I mean, one of the highest in the country. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>So obviously, these children who are getting pregnant are getting sexually transmitted <v Dr. Bruce Dan>diseases, are not having protected sex and certainly aren't abstaining. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>But clearly, they're having sex. Do you think the abstinence message will really work <v Dr. Bruce Dan>with teenagers? <v Lavern Gill>Well, yes, I do think it really work. <v Lavern Gill>That's not going to work with a large number of teenagers. <v Lavern Gill>I don't think, because a lot of them are into having sex.

<v Lavern Gill>They're very sexually active. A lot of them it won't work with, but we're hoping that if <v Lavern Gill>we could reach maybe one, that will help because we figure out that maybe <v Lavern Gill>some of those will influence others with positive peer pressure. <v Lavern Gill>And basically we see that it's affecting more of them. <v Lavern Gill>Maybe sixth and seventh. We start from sixth grade and sixth, seventh and eighth grades. <v Lavern Gill>And we see that it's being more influential with the sixth and seventh grade. <v Lavern Gill>Not so much with the eighth graders. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Mr. Seals, the Afro-American community has been hard hit by AIDS. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>It's one of the communities. It's the highest risk. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>What do we need to do to stop that? <v Dwight Seals>Well, I think we need to recognize firsthand that um there are a lot of cultural <v Dwight Seals>issues that come into play <v Dwight Seals>in terms of sexuality in the black community and that <v Dwight Seals>we need to we need to recognize it. <v Dwight Seals>We need to try innovative and different kinds of strategies to address that issue. <v Dwight Seals>We need to change the way we educate special populations.

<v Dwight Seals>We need to realize that culturally sensitive kinds <v Dwight Seals>of materials should be utilized. <v Dwight Seals>We need to recognize historical kinds of things that are in play in the black community. <v Dwight Seals>And we need to address those and we need to change those. <v Dwight Seals>We need to think real clearly about how it's affecting us <v Dwight Seals>disproportionately and how the black church must begin to take some responsibility <v Dwight Seals>for taking some efforts and helping us do that. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Yes, ma'am. You had a question for the panel. <v Speaker>Yes. Um do you think is more advisable for parents or teachers to educate <v Speaker>younger children about AIDS? For Ms. Gill. <v Lavern Gill>I think we need the cooperation of both parents and teachers. <v Lavern Gill>And a lot of times we have students that have not been talked to by their parents, and <v Lavern Gill>we're giving them their first, you know, instruction in sex education or in abstinence. <v Lavern Gill>And we feel like if we have the parents to get involved and maybe reinforce that at home, <v Lavern Gill>we will have better success in our program. In our program we do invite parents <v Lavern Gill>to come to our sessions that we have.

<v Lavern Gill>We do two sessions and they are invited. <v Lavern Gill>But so far we haven't had a lot of parent participation. <v Speaker>This is Brother Don Hood, who's in the Archdiocese of Chicago. <v Speaker>Let me ask you, from the Catholic point of view, we're trying to teach kids about sex. <v Speaker>But what about the whole issue of teaching kids about protected sex and safe sex? <v Brother Don Hood>In our curriculum as we know from the teachings of the church, <v Brother Don Hood>condoms or contraceptives and contraceptives imply <v Brother Don Hood>intercourse outside of marriage. <v Brother Don Hood>Therefore, we do not teach con-the use of safe <v Brother Don Hood>sex. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>But what happens, you know, obviously Catholics are teenagers, just like anybody else. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Um, are they getting the message any more than anyone else that se-abstinence is the way <v Dr. Bruce Dan>to go? <v Brother Don Hood>They're obviously the main message is abstinence and consistent all <v Brother Don Hood>the way through. And it's our-AIDS education program is backed <v Brother Don Hood>up by religion class, by uh family life program, by sex <v Brother Don Hood>education and so on.

<v Brother Don Hood>So our AIDS program is not just one program. <v Brother Don Hood>And we believe that all these things are complementing. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Dr. Boxer. Let me ask you, if you teach people all the different things, abstinence, <v Dr. Bruce Dan>protected sex, um which you think they're gonna choose? <v Andrew Boxer>I think that different people will choose different ways. <v Andrew Boxer>But I don't think that there's any evidence that providing information to kids actually <v Andrew Boxer>causes them to engage in sexual behavior. <v Andrew Boxer>I think existing data suggest that if you teach teenagers <v Andrew Boxer>about contraception and about safer sex, that those who are sexually active, <v Andrew Boxer>a larger number of those who are sexually active will use those options. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Let me introduce the panel in case you didn't see you saw some of her work. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>That's Linda Harzi, who guest is the director of the AIDS Theater Educational Theater we <v Dr. Bruce Dan>saw. Do those work? <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Are those helpful? Have you got any response or any data to indicate that when young kids <v Dr. Bruce Dan>see that, that helps them incorporate this knowledge into practicing either safe sex or <v Dr. Bruce Dan>abstinence?

<v Linda Harzi>We have very positive data which shows that the kids who take the pretest <v Linda Harzi>to the whiz quiz before the older kids show um afterwards, <v Linda Harzi>they take the same test and come up with very high scores of understanding <v Linda Harzi>how to prevent AIDS and how to live compassionately in a world where it's a reality. <v Linda Harzi>We find that people are very positive when we educate them. <v Linda Harzi>At the same time, it's entertaining and enlightening them. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Let me bring up a question to the panel that was touched on before, um we talk about <v Dr. Bruce Dan>whether it's better, better for the parents to educate their kids about sex and AIDS or <v Dr. Bruce Dan>should it be done in school or any kind of program. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>But there are a lot of parents out there who don't want their kids exposed to these sort <v Dr. Bruce Dan>of things, whether it be a program with the Chicago schools. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>What do you say to them? <v Dwight Seals>I think education does begin at home. <v Dwight Seals>But unfortunately, some adults have more difficulty talking about sex <v Dwight Seals>than some young people do. And if they can't do that, then there's a void there. <v Dwight Seals>And that that's a kind of void that needs to be filled. <v Dwight Seals>Young people need information. It's best to have some information that no information. <v Dwight Seals>You should have correct information as well.

<v Dwight Seals>That's the parent's responsibility. But unfortunately, parents do fall short some time in <v Dwight Seals>providing that. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>I guess we all do in certain circumstances. Yes, sir. <v Speaker>Uh, yes, we know that today's youth are bombarded with media messages about the <v Speaker>adventureness the adventuresome sex and the exciting sex <v Speaker>and so forth and so on. In the light of all of that media pressure that the youth are <v Speaker>getting bombarded with, whose responsibility is it really to <v Speaker>teach our youngsters about sexuality? <v Lavern Gill>It is the parents responsibility to monitor television watching. <v Lavern Gill>I do that myself as a parent. <v Lavern Gill>And that is one of the problems we're having with our program because they are getting <v Lavern Gill>much more television than they are getting instruction and abstinence or any <v Lavern Gill>other sexually um sexual education <v Lavern Gill>program. So that is a very big problem today. <v Lavern Gill>But that really does have to be dealt with in the home. <v Lavern Gill>And, you know, it's natural that if your child, your teenager, is getting <v Lavern Gill>a steady diet of violence and sexual activity all the time, quite naturally,

<v Lavern Gill>they're going to have those desires and those, you know, needs. <v Lavern Gill>So it's really the responsibility of the parent to try to do something about that. <v Lavern Gill>And when the students come to school, we will have a better chance of trying to reach <v Lavern Gill>them as far as abstinence and other programs. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Here's a young lady you saw before, just a few minutes ago, who's teaching in the <v Dr. Bruce Dan>schools, Felicia Rodriguez, who's with Michael Reese Hospital. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Um, the programs you're doing, uh they work at school, kids are there, but when they go <v Dr. Bruce Dan>home do the kids go and talk to the parents about what they saw? <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Do parents come back and talk to you? <v Felicia Rodriguez>Well, I certainly encourage them to go home and talk about this with their parents. <v Felicia Rodriguez>And uh you absolutely should keep in mind, we're we're talking <v Felicia Rodriguez>about and emphasizing here the difficulty that parents have talking about sex. <v Felicia Rodriguez>And this is threefold, the program that we're presenting here, educate teachers, <v Felicia Rodriguez>educate parents, educate kids. <v Felicia Rodriguez>There is no way on the face of this earth should you leave out the parents. <v Felicia Rodriguez>Um, but we must work together with them.

<v Felicia Rodriguez>And I use this as an avenue um encourage. <v Felicia Rodriguez>Absolutely. Kids, go home and teach your parents if you can. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>You know, we talk a lot about age, education. But I guess this first time you talk about <v Dr. Bruce Dan>sex education probably shouldn't be about AIDS. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Clearly, uh you should be talkin' about sex education before you bring up the subject. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>How do you go about doing that? <v Dwight Seals>Well, uh panelists and uh we were talking earlier about that, about, <v Dwight Seals>you know, sometimes it could be traumatic in a young person's life to initially discuss <v Dwight Seals>with them AIDS as it relates to sex. <v Dwight Seals>Because young people, some young people have a hard time conceptualizing <v Dwight Seals>sex as it relates to AIDS and particularly younger people. <v Dwight Seals>So your first foray into talking about sex, your first <v Dwight Seals>and your initial step toward doing that in my mind can <v Dwight Seals>be counterproductive if they don't really understand what that's all about. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Well, we certainly know what our panelists thinks about. Think about educating children <v Dr. Bruce Dan>in school. But now let's hear the opinions of some listeners at WVON Talk

<v Dr. Bruce Dan>Radio. <v Drake Collier>The questions that we're posing on this issue is age 10, 11 or 12, grades <v Drake Collier>fifth, sixth and uh fourth, fifth and sixth, I should say. <v Drake Collier>Is that just too early to be telling young people about AIDS? <v Drake Collier>And if we teach children about AIDS education, are we somehow encouraging <v Drake Collier>sexuality and discouraging abstinence? <v Drake Collier>5 9 1 5 9 9 0 Let's go to our telephone. <v Drake Collier>Queen is on the line. <v Queen>I think we've got some smart kids. We underestimate them. <v Queen>I think they should be armed with all the information they need to survive in this <v Queen>crazy world. <v Drake Collier>Michael, good morning. <v Michael>Hi. You know, it seems to me that since 3/4th excuse me, one <v Michael>half of the new AIDS cases here in Chicago are black women with children, <v Michael>obviously, the adults have not either learned to take the precautions or have <v Michael>not felt that they were important enough. <v Michael>And I don't understand how people can actually get on the television and get <v Michael>on the telephone and actually state that they're opposed to it, because more reasons

<v Michael>because I mean, if our morality was already intact, we wouldn't have a high <v Michael>frequency of incidence here within our community. <v Michael>I'm tired of hearing ignorance. It's about time for for our community to take a <v Michael>progressive stand concerning any virus that threatens to exterminate us. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Well, we hope we've given you a chance to at least think about educating your children <v Dr. Bruce Dan>regarding this sensitive but critical subject. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>There are so many questions that remain unanswered. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Research is being updated on a daily basis, and we've invited several doctors and experts <v Dr. Bruce Dan>on AIDS research to give us a briefing on what's happening today. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>We also thought that they might answer some questions that children commonly ask about <v Dr. Bruce Dan>AIDS and how parents can answer them. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Now our first guest is Dr. Elizabeth Gath, associate director of Cook County Hospital's <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Women and Children with AIDS Program and director of pediatric AIDS clinical trials. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>And Dr. Daniel Johnson. He's the director of Special Infections and Children Clinic <v Dr. Bruce Dan>at Weyler Children's Hospital.

<v Dr. Bruce Dan>And Dr. Madeline Shalowitz, who we met before, is a behavioral and developmental <v Dr. Bruce Dan>pediatrician at Lauler a-beta Children's Hospital. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>And again, Dr. Horace Smith, a specialist in hematology and oncology at Children's <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Memorial Hospital. <v Speaker>Well, I was wondering, in terms of high school students, are there any numbers which <v Speaker>suggest what types of ways that AIDS is being spread among among <v Speaker>the students? Are there any breakdowns? <v Speaker>Is it. Is it uh sexual contact? <v Speaker>Is it drug use or anything of that nature that we could use to show <v Speaker>them that normal people get AIDS, too? <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>The breakdown is according to age, that if in children <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>who in adolescents who are, say, 13 or 14 years of age, the greater <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>number of those adolescents have acquired the illness through the <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>transfusion of blood or blood products. These are primarily hemophiliac <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>adolescents. If the child or the adolescent is 15 or 16, <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>then the breakdown swerves a little bit more to sexually acquired.

<v Dr. Elizabath Gath>But it's still more or less a 50/50 breakdown between transfusion and sexually acquired <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>and I.V. drug use is something that is a smaller part but <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>present in that age group as well. <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>When you get to 17 and 18 year olds, sexually <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>transmitted sexual sexual transmission is a clear uh <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>clearly the dominating way that adolescents pick up this illness. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Dr. Shalowitz, we've talked a lot about sex, but we haven't really talked a lot about <v Dr. Bruce Dan>drugs. For older kids, sex may be a real issue, but I guess for even the very youngest <v Dr. Bruce Dan>kids, drugs are issue because they see it in their school. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>They see their older siblings and other people using them. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>What should we be telling our very young kids about drugs, if anything at all? <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>Well, first, I think I need to disagree with you. <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>Yes, drugs are an important issue for 10 and 11 year olds, but so is sex. <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>And they're thinking about it a lot. <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>Um, we really haven't talked at all about the community in which all of this is <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>occurring. We've said that blacks and Hispanics have a greater incidence of AIDS, but we

<v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>haven't said that these fifth and sixth graders that we're targeting, the 10 and 11 year <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>olds, may have 22 year old mothers who have already several children. <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>And can we really target educating the child when the parent is <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>taking the same risks that the child is? <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>Can we approach an educational problem just at the children or do we really need to use a <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>family centered approach? <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Dr. Smith, that may be a very important problem, the black community, when the younger <v Dr. Bruce Dan>kids are watching their older brothers and sisters either taking drugs, having <v Dr. Bruce Dan>children out of wedlock. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>How do you get to a young child who's surrounded on a day to day basis, whether it be <v Dr. Bruce Dan>black, Hispanic or white with peer pressure that shows them there's another lifestyle <v Dr. Bruce Dan>than one that's not being taught? <v Dr. Horace Smith>Well, again, I think the aim there is a try to make sure these children have good <v Dr. Horace Smith>exposure to positive role models. <v Dr. Horace Smith>You mentioned earlier the church, which is one institution. <v Dr. Horace Smith>There are other avenues whereby we can again influence young children with many, many <v Dr. Horace Smith>positive role models and hopefully will make a difference in their choices.

<v Dr. Bruce Dan>We have a question up here. Yes, ma'am. <v Speaker>Um this to anyone of y'all. Among which age group do you think the AIDS virus is <v Speaker>spreading more rapidly? <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Good question, I don't know if I know the answer to that. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Where is the highest incidence right now? <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>Well, I think that we could say, based on the fact that almost 25 <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>percent of the new cases of HIV are occurring, or rather <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>that 25 percent of the current cases of HIV occur in individuals from the age of 20 <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>and 29, that teenagers are a group of individuals <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>who are acquiring the virus quite rapidly since there is an incubation period <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>before someone becomes symptomatic. <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>The assumption has to be that those individuals acquire the virus during their teenage <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>years. The other group that has to be emphasized is the newborn. <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>Since women are an increasing uh group of individuals <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>who are acquiring the virus. And there is passage of the virus to the newborn <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>during pregnancy or during delivery.

<v Dr. Daniel Johnson>That's another group of individuals who are rapidly acquiring the virus. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Yes, ma'am. <v Speaker>My questions for Dr. Johnson on the panel. <v Speaker>My son's 11 years old and he's in a sixth grade class in a public school. <v Speaker>And I know that our school nurse on a daily basis sees a lot of blood in her office. <v Speaker>And this is from accidents, trauma, injuries, sports, bloody noses, et cetera. <v Speaker>My question is, what is the chance of a child getting the virus from an <v Speaker>HIV positive child on the school playground? <v Speaker>Thank you. <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>The risk of transmission in that situation is almost nil. <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>It really is quite small and can be brought to zero by <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>educating your own child about some of the steps that can be taken to <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>prevent even that very small risk of transmission in that setting. <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>Specifically that they should wash if they come into contact with blood, <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>that if they see blood on the playground area, <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>that they should try and steer clear of it, that they should, of course, contact

<v Dr. Daniel Johnson>someone who is in charge of the playground supervision so that way it can be cleaned up <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>appropriately using bleach and through the use of gloves. <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>It's impossible to tell by looking at someone whether they're HIV infected or not. <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>In terms of rushing to help someone in that kind of situation, again, common <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>sense should be what should take place. <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>And that is that they should be careful in terms <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>of not exposing open parts of their body to the blood <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>and then washing their hands after contact so as to prevent <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>spread. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Dr. Gath, I guess that was probably a question that's more addressed to adults. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Children wouldn't ask that question. A lot of problems we've had are not the children <v Dr. Bruce Dan>aren't willing to accept a lot of things that adults have a hard time accepting I guess <v Dr. Bruce Dan>scientific fact, when confronted with a lot of prejudice or fears, healthy fears. <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>That's very true and the fears are what keep us from acknowledging <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>that this problem actually exists.

<v Dr. Elizabath Gath>In fact, in terms of children biting other children, there was a recent <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>study that of children who were infected with the virus actually did <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>bite some household contacts and there was zero transmission. <v Speaker>If you were tested positive for the AIDS virus. <v Speaker>What is the probability that you can catch AIDS and how long before you even <v Speaker>know? <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>From what we know from the San Francisco cohort study, that after eleven years, <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>only 50 percent of the men who were infected with the virus <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>developed any symptoms after 11 years. <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>So how long can one remain asymptomatic? <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>No one really has studied it that long. <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>The disease has only been acknowledged in the society since 1980. <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>So we're 11 years into this epidemic and people are <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>here that are infected that you cannot tell by looking at a person. <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>And it does take many years, there are many years of no symptoms whatsoever. <v Speaker>It has been suggested that condoms be used for sex, safe sex

<v Speaker>and to prevent AIDS. I'm wondering what the effectiveness of condoms really is. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Do we know that? Do we have good data on that? <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>Well, we don't have definitive data on that. <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>It's not an easy study to perform. <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>And so that what we have is, is information more based <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>on laboratory situations <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>to try and look at the ability of the condom to prevent passage <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>of the virus. We know that when you couple the use of a condom <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>with spermacidal foam, that it is a very effective <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>barrier and probably approaches a 90 to 95 percent <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>effectiveness. But in terms of knowing that <v Dr. Daniel Johnson>in the community, the answer is we don't know that for sure. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Let me ask you a question, if I could. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>What do we need to do in the next five years to do better than we have in the last five?

<v Dr. Bruce Dan>Some people suggested telling all college students that don't have sex with anybody <v Dr. Bruce Dan>younger than you are. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>In other words, don't transmit the virus down to younger people. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Maybe in five or 10 years from now, we'll have a whole group of people who are now <v Dr. Bruce Dan>uninfected. I don't think that strategy is going to work. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>But what do we need to do? We've told people about safe sex. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>We've told 'em about abstinence, but the epidemic keeps climbing. <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>What you really have to talk about when you give people information, what makes <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>them want to do something with the information? <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>Because our data on adolescents tells us that most of them know about AIDS. <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>Most of them also know that it's transmitted sexually and <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>still they don't take any efforts to protect themselves against it. <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>So what is it that makes a population, whether it's adolescents or otherwise, want to <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>use that information? <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>How how do we make kids feel good enough about themselves that they don't <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>want to take the risk? And how do we teach them that that that risk <v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>taking behavior is going to have long term consequences when developmentally

<v Dr. Madeleine Shalowitz>they really think they're invulnerable? <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Let me ask a question to the entire panel or anyone who wants to answer it, nowadays with <v Dr. Bruce Dan>new drugs, better drugs, that people with AIDS and HIV infection are living longer <v Dr. Bruce Dan>than they did five or 10 years ago. Some people say we may be may have people live 10 or <v Dr. Bruce Dan>12, 15, 20 years with this infection still be able to infect other people. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Is that going to change the way we deal with society when we have maybe 20 years from now <v Dr. Bruce Dan>a large group of people in society, a million people who are infected with this <v Dr. Bruce Dan>potentially lethal virus? <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>I think what's important to recognize that what we have done thus far <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>in our personal lives, in our professional lives, in our most intimate sexual <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>lives, has not been sufficient in 10, 11 years of this epidemic to <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>stop it or even to slow it down. <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>I think the other thing that's very important to recognize is that HIV is not <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>simply a disease, but is also a reflection of the problems of society. <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>It is a symptom of poverty.

<v Dr. Elizabath Gath>It is a symptom of lack of education. <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>It is a symptom of the perinatal morbidity that we see here in this <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>in this city. It is a symptom of uh overall <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>not caring for us as individuals. <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>And that what we need to do is to consolidate services to every <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>person, that health care is a right and it is not just a privilege <v Dr. Elizabath Gath>for people. And so, yes, we do have to change our mindset. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>Well, want I want to thank our panel and I thank our audience for being with us. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>And I want to tell you that it's imperative in today's society to make sure that our <v Dr. Bruce Dan>children are being educated about this disease. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>At the end of this program will list additional information. <v Dr. Bruce Dan>But please remember, if we don't teach our children about AIDS, they may find out about <v Dr. Bruce Dan>it the hard way. [music] [Song: Protect Yourself performed by AIDS Educational Theater] <v Announcer>For more information about AIDS education programs.

<v Announcer>Please write or call AIDS Educational Theater. <v Announcer>Southwest Parents Committee. <v Announcer>Michael Reese Hospital and Medical Center. <v Announcer>West Side AIDS Education and Intervention Network. <v Announcer>Stop AIDS Chicago. <v Announcer>Chicago Public Schools. Family Life Education Program. <v Announcer>And for more information regarding AIDS. <v Announcer>Please call Illinois AIDS Hotline 1 800 Aid AIDS. <v Announcer>AIDS Crisis Line 1 800 2 2 1 7 0 4 4 <v Announcer>and Chicago AIDS Activity Office 3 1 2 7 4 4 <v Announcer>4 3 1 2.