1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-06-27; Part 5 of 5

a peek into play that's right i can the puppeteers because by jury i think they're more animated and we got

the power as president of the united states because of the gravity of it subjective by this committee the most intense interrogation just the way it would have been a most appropriate credibility as would be want that by the white house and as enormous german the white house has prepared a memorandum so questions which is why this debate these questions should serve

as a substitute that are going up the very best a substitute for cross examination of this to begin by the president of the united states accordingly i believe that it would be most appropriate use these questions and to use the memorandum not so that all of us here will agree that the president isn't caught so with that in mind i would proceed so i have here a letter twenty seven nineteen seventy three it reads as follows the us senate in a way we have not a public expression of a willingness to use question as a memorandum previously furnished of the committee staff and questioning yesterday we have questions

all of my new audio and first in this material we thought it would be appropriate to send these questions directly to you there's also impose there with a slightly revised and updated version of the memorandum previously promised to the committees that sincerely schaffer it was our special counsel to the president mr chairman i ask a busload of the republicans question one it's b that's

right mr joe romm proceed with the memo which of receivers morning from the white house in those clothes as a lot of wreckage on the new law and dissipated in the planning that went into the brink of watergate only instead of his knowledge of this was a big operation or his approval can ultimately about that have not yet been established there is no reason to cut out of other john thing was the principal actor in the watergate cover up and that while other motivations may have played a lot of great interest in covering up one cell free june seventeen the end of the white house from justice from a background working on problems of demonstrations and intelligence among those working on them and the white house were commonly used in a jungle you it was involved in discussions in nineteen seventy one about the sound

was planned caulfield proposed erlichman was told that the original authors of the one million dollar plan where i'm at like i was at this point would you like to hear as queenie question i mean joe that budget that was set at a half a million dollars and all of the work involved in reviewing the government thought that was an excessive amount of money the meetings the

end of those natural causes who is also being forced white house position close friends says on november twenty four nineteen seventy one i don't believe that and with john mitchell let me come to the white house i said i didn't know what i thought that somebody else myself so important to the contrary it will sponsor me to the white house and that i recall some conversations with the council meetings going to the white house i will continue to get introduced but good athletic in december nineteen seventy one and suggested lydia ford combined traditional general counsel and chief of intelligence gathering or crp he told me were that mitchell of putting it

david mitchell and mcgruder met to discuss intelligence files of the sky and on january twenty seven nineteen seventy two adults over the fall dean was not present at the final meeting on march thirtieth when the two hundred fifty thousand dollar plan was approved it is well whether he was not there because they disapprove of or simply because he was not in the biscayne or because you want to try and keep his own record clean this is an important industry and the irony here is that there was going to be a meeting

is reporters having said that people didn't think it was appropriate for them to be in on these conversations and all it's also reporters that at a meeting in mitchell's offers that well we should not discuss this in front of mitchell boy in the attorney general's office unquote at some point during this brain growth of phone data in aspen to talk political try to calm him down at another point being knowing that about an operation was under serious consideration armageddon refer to the importance of libya's intelligence activities what happened very strange relationship with that

i'm strong personality and a personnel problem and i suggested that mr martin mr martin with and that way at all also in march nineteen seventy three included in the hall and that in the spring of nineteen seventy two years old and that he had been through two meetings at which an acceptable an outlandish ideas for intelligence gathering had been rejected by himself and by mitchell that he didn't propose an awkward ten animals' lunch meetings obama has no recollection of being telling him about the meanings of the

time when he is or willing to accept that as a possibility in order also sending falling and breaking the first time i had a discussion with he remembered everything well and very clearly the fact that i believe what effect would be on the muslim certain in the spring of nineteen seventy two bodies knowledge of specific approval of the break in it wasn't clear today as a lot of what you're onto seventy the watergate but he was an original difficulty watergate affair was so clearly at all grown up with discussions and last year ban on that he might well be regarded as a conspirator with regard to them you must immediately have

realized that has become michel will also be involved here's one called the nineteen seventies to advise him of the problem and to direct and to take charge of a for the white house even without an instruction and this would've been his responsibility as counsel for the president mcconnell their parents and he was active in that role from the moment of his return to the city of beirut to have a breakdown this is a statement from missouri is the position on june nineteen the day night what led a natural stronger and slow opium it is the cover up a series of meetings over the weekend

initially us justice department the white house i'm sure and these meetings that cover a planet's fresh series of meetings followed troublesome of being a natural woman who knows this full context on the cover up dean was not nearly one of the architects of the cover up plan he was also its most

active participant that the wall was involved in all aspects of this cover up an old and this is from the protest it wasn't jane who suggest that halderman that the fbi was concerned that it might run into a cia operation this is from those who wish to comment i have to ask tell me and we're reporting

feelings i have no idea what it does suggest the cia might've involved this is it like that i was not at this point and it was a later date his theories of the case i think fellini used to call mr erlichman was one of those theories was the cia was involved we're going to meet not necessarily no

it was being who suggested the tunnel walls walters on china or twenty six that cia play the watergate defendants while in jail and this is from the waltons memo porreca june twenty eight nineteen seventy two i was reported also at one point time to mr michel martin about the media great theory that theory as i recall is that the cia might use some assistance in providing support it also raised questions about the reason to do so is it

and he was he says but did you invite this goes it was being reportedly acting on behalf of mitchell and several weeks after the break in to obtain approval for fundraising bike on by forest of persons and this is from the state actually cia but the

demands of money and mr mr in this conversation with you you know it was being revealed the papers filed an unsafe and declare that they were politically sensitive and should be given special treatment i don't think there's any doubt about that mr cole

right on tuesday nobody should be given special treatment political sensitivity he allegedly told me when i reported what the documents were read them and i was subsequently sixty days and shredded documents

but that might be what the fbi the committee has once again all to temporarily for a vote on the senate floor the returns the examination of former white house counsel john dean will continue public television coverage the watergate hearings will also continue after this offer station identification on average coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of pbs the public broadcasting service fb fb

and that continues its coverage of hearings

by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities you again correspondent jim lehrer so in a continuing the white house statement reading from the memo was being who sought unsuccessfully to have the others who made his name on the list of those who attended meetings on the living plans this is from the nineteen eighties my

recollection of the meeting and i said that well i don't know what occurred the second meeting and i was really into the election laws and that within a new way to explain my meetings with it was being at the country today before the nineteen nineties the country i

really should be doing the station and it's your testimony that it was mr goodman who was the idea that it was being a natural i can't lie he's a writer the reduction these ruins

also the version i did it i did i hear a statement that it would fall it was being who said of a memorandum calls an update on august twenty nine stating the facts as we knew them all for god's sake it and teachers recruited well i think the back they could lose out on that committee why not and isn't before he was in the

white house he had sought an even number of people in the white house i was the only one who would talk with technically and a lot of theory that he did have difficulties with some descriptions that made her after april seventh which was the effect of it on the new law and as an attorney before him some of the money it was being who was the asian and some of him why do things with the rest of persons i know i know

valerie plame and i think that in the media the media nineteen seventy one discuss it mr liddy at the time i called

him this was in january i believe as fenway fans this year it had been trying to reach mr crowe he had received a letter from the senate commerce committee investigators and they were seeking i'm scott simon mr levy that's right the reasons that mr cuomo acknowledged to speak with him because it for the senate commerce committee in connection with confirmation hearing

conversations that's right it was being who took calls them up to make it tries to of course is that conversation with god and said that comedian would handle the matter prosecutors reported in the new york times not me his ibm tape of a conversation i took a copy of that and played it for mr coleman camp david on november fifteenth instructions that raises mr mitchell take it with me and play that mr mitchell as

well i don't know i have a tape dean was perfectly situated to masterminding carry out a cover up since as counsel to the president and the man in charge of the white house he had full access to what was happening in the investigation he's investigative reporter later in july five investigations it did not appear that any white house people in a high ranking committee people were involved in the operational planning or execution of the break in

sen biden might at one point i don't know the committee has a copy of the cassette that i've prepared based on the courses taken i do have that in my possession and will be turned over to the committee i'm only other comment you made regarding attorney general public statements i never discussed it with mr kleindienst the cover up that was going on in the white house and the investigation i'm sure he's referring to was his own conclusions this year close to recall that at that moment being directed the attorney general's erroneous impression by pointing out that michel and he'd have all been involved in planning operations of what watergate

was an obvious target for all that strong have knowledge of the fruits of this kind of operation or that all of them were supporting perjury an otherwise seeking to conceal the facts they were announced is this from the office of your successes i understand and i don't blame my successor was there and i'm standing near three years in the white house is active in a cover up also made and perhaps unwittingly the principal of a political and constitutional crisis that watergate not a license but it isn't

old because the truth is coming out coming to light so belatedly because of insinuations that the white house was a particular cover up and above all because the white house was nervous that they use of ottawa says have been untrue these consequences we're talking as going my testimony answers in great detail my dealings with mr haldeman ehrlichman at the white house there's no way to implement the

plan it was responsible in the white house or becoming comprised of what happened june seventeen nineteen a periodic conversations with well about virtually every aspect of this case in all this is fun whoa whoa this is the proposition the white house it was not a spying in nineteen seventy three with the election fast and public interest in watergate on the way being now thought that this cover up had been a success although you've reported to continue an ongoing investigation

and i don't know how and the events that transpired there which i believe were documented by materials the air by mr coleman and to be his assistant as we're speaking with you at the same time gained was affecting of failing memory and talking to magruder as a team that not recall a pre watergate planning meetings in which it just this is from mr mcgrew this festival i

know what happened these were not approved mr reeder yeah indeed given the impression that i couldn't remember what happened because i didn't want any discussions about what happened that point were you surprised when you heard of the jews the code among the reaction was after hearing the fact that it was a

quote an unwelcome surprise first time i was you haven't i don't know

you go to work in the beginning as workers and was again in the middle nineteen seventy three d image of mormon when ehrlichman in parliament a senate committee bean was assigned to reduce walter written follow detail five as they relate able to the committee to reelect and the white house and all the system the report this is true that was as i say an earlier effort

in december to prepare such a report submitted that documents to the committee if there were discussions of preparing a written report it wasn't the goal of report that was prepared images i'm never going to stay and a the pros determined that the president was the

appropriate person with no work in formulating the president's position on executive privilege on similar legal issues that these hearings and news conferences on march second and fifty at which they arrive february twenty seven in april six day the president met with being and usually covers twenty one of twenty two times and they're reporting a telephone conversation between martha cabinet with one second center reading it is probable that the help induced reviews allen separation of pulse that would have ended it himself on having to testify on the role to be effective minister we've heard countless

occasions when the executive privilege issue had come up before it was a parallel parking between the great earrings and the itt hearings for mr flanagan made an appearance before the senate judiciary committee this was quite evident in my discussions with a very clear to me here being with developmental problems on march that there were press reports that it was being lowered recommended litigating the committee to reelect president lost twenty second they testified that he had lied and because of the fbi investigation walking on march twenty thirteen calls litigious are it was made public a cover up was coming on problem he's very

pleasant well as always was we can do it while the investigation is continuing there are conflicting versions of events and the rights of defendants might be prejudiced by a statement in all this from this novel i think that relates back to a conversation i have with mr haldeman shortly after the election and before it appeared he was requested to prepare a written version of the report what that would entail grand jury reconvene that investigation which come directly to the white house and being indicted and he said to me i don't have a viable option

on march twentieth the president indicated it still did not have all the facts march twentieth so that's great i didn't your testimony you just have all the facts i don't know whether they knew on march twentieth we had conversations before that we had conversations that i was

personally engaged in on september fifteen the preceding year we had conversations in early february nine which i cut my own involvement and we also had a discussion one more until recently then came back and ask those making these demands on and he'd been given clemency in a conversation about the alliance ticket and the money map hanging in the

sole of the shoe and a very legal fashion advisor national meetings in february and the attorney general's office mike matheny i saw that one meetings with the president the issue clearly advise mr the break in your own all the color of unknowable he wasn't interested in it and the preceding waging had

begun to express your concern about these all involve referring to the meetings and nettles office upon us operation and elsewhere great an avid possibly on march sixteen i can't discuss that research we couldn't find an answer quote i don't think the president has any idea of the kinds of things that you've told me about an all

when do you agree that the president did not more protein that it was his obligation to advise the president an election been on was on this subject i was i have one you're welcome everything i knew

yesterday even cancel the president of the united states did not feel that it was your obligation and duty in the watergate break in as willy loman i can tell you before he went to meetings

image of mistrust i think the personal i got the struggle and the sight of that you might say i was off the reservation was like what i think is that was the twenty i was twenty eight i think that was my attitude in the meeting with the president on the twenty twenty fergie and there is more discussion and such a cover up techniques without getting into great detail but i can report great detail everything i think they were saying was asking me do i was saying

no and finally one point that meeting i said that i felt that the women aren't going to be indicted for obstruction of justice a necessity he recognized things are going to change my attitude on march twenty first game gave the president a more complete but still a longer version of the facts and so surprised the president to press the cause of working to say well the president came out of shetland wool he worries me on april fifteenth that was a

little before his committee was on the twenty eight when i came out and there was this discussion about what i would be willing to perpetuate this point there has been one meeting disability i hate you i want what i see the this situation and i'm in this situation that i thought mr mitchell said that's not accurate but we moved

mr mitchell good based on the information that we receive the information thank you well you just toast

no no in asia he told a latino support reagan he suggests that halderman ehrlichman indeed might all has some problem about the financial transactions of the defendants that if other more technical and political than legal i do as a

discussion of the other barbary i don't recall regime at that point as a reason for mr hans i raised with mr altman as you were talking about and subsequently if all money for silence was a criminal offence if it wanted to say to these problems were more technical and political illegal that is right

are you he oversaw conflation of public testimony by mcgwire and others suggest the grand jury and wave executive privilege i don't know continue to cover up the subsequent meeting on the twenty second with mr mckillop if the president and he had received and that certainly wouldn't engage in a conversation with mr mitchell i would usually

discussed in the status of this committee and the line certainly nothing of any significance of her at all we're going to need i don't know if at all should it be i do not recall it that not happen the weapons to the discussion of immunity is because i know for a lot of testimony that you called recollection of so immense were oftentimes you

have testified that you cannot recall that would win a possibility that it did happen another meeting that they're strongly opposed immunity i never heard that there's not almost twenty thirteen wasn't that they didn't want to complete a long promised report it was a six days but came down on the night of the twenty eighty nine eleven nothing delivered nothing because i had right at five had earlier conversations about my testimony every time i revealed the slightest inch of my knowledge recollections began to change characterizations began to change eyewitness testimony were you in the morning

everything i could remember in the sixties some money for your own use i was you testified on several occasions that you're concerned with a memory of a problem that was so why did you not on your own present to the president report politically

and i was never sure as you say he was a dramatic time he came down and i had this little round of activities with mr mitchell in particular and that it will help one day's news while he was on the mountain is understandable says by this time it would've been impossible to write a believable report that would not have been solved and i want it was the camp david introduced the system but he was

quote not getting a statement on what was planning his own defense and all that alderman talk with them several times and felt that low dean was not having much progress in writing this report but it became clear that he was wearing more about himself and for all well as i say when i came down from camp david questionable about myself is what i was witnessing mr haldeman minister of iran becoming very concerned about themselves on the twenty the president suggested that the announcement being would appear before the grand jury and what twenty fifth of march i have on the twentieth of march i was

i was at camp david and i noticed something as i recall and i recall a conversation with the president i have no knowledge of that and also absolutely oliver sacks in that discussion let's listen and i had no reason to on the president relieve

pain of any further responsibility for the watergate investigation the caller lippmann in poland that it was better than to the present or being wise and the thing up to his eyebrows or an aside ehrlichman to look into walking distance from the state president and again if you're open and those conversations would leave for other proceeding one at the event and for a growing awareness of these political involvement and this is an apple lead others want you to note at this point that you mentioned the record that germans also resigned from the white house on the same day that my resignation was requested and leave others one being used by the president and a way that his own complicity have become obvious

being decided to strike out on his own immunity for the long list of wrong according to the press it was april second when he first established contact with a prosecutor's an attempt at blogging these negotiations he has this report and it was a puzzle on april fourteenth of mitchell magruder and bean were on while also wanted to comment on that as i testified <unk> after he had returned from san clemente back to washington and i met with him on the afternoon late afternoon the eighth and had periodic meetings with him during the week i think it's the fourteenth it was on the fourteenth but he told me that he had talked with findings and that the grand jury was doing nothing is really asking

me when i was likely to appear before the grand jury i was rt for the instructions my own counsel limiting conversations with mr allman mr olyphant about testimonial areas but was it that day that i grew up the list but i want to get messy very clear when they had very serious problems and it was only as a result of that list that will suddenly received a call it did and nine i realize that late at night to get everything from a prosecutor's and that's one thing that when they hear

the activity began for all sixteen dean was asked by the president to resign but refused to do so on the thirtieth he was dismissed it's increasingly shrill efforts says that they could save himself quite striking out reckless with others up too familiar and too painful to require mention this as the memorandum senator i think that anyone who has been on the receiving end of adverse publicity expand this witness another navy other witnesses and i have not tell them personalities personalities and the thunder in these hearings what was the germ of that anti memorandum i have several questions which was a president were closing statement normally listen

in to do the interrogation martin yes i think the catch i'm standing with mike one thing missing in the description of the sequins of them says the fact that i was at

i acknowledge that i didn't even that night on april fourteenth meeting with and now with those questions and you know the fact that the authorship of the millions of primitive to the message of living reside i would like to request the committee that they're at chairman of the main issue in the midst of the art so that he can inform me as the source operations which led him to something in the mainland

and only became famous i'm only going to be in our communities in senate testimony that most dangerous announcer endless amount of certainty that his testimony will continue until tomorrow what a plan this weekend mr speaker and i believe that we can mr mitchell

mm know the town meetings this week and i think maybe i'm just a native of economist mit and his testimony is that we're not this weekend though circumstances we don't know and that the rest of us are asking whether he is able to win in the state yeah yeah

and the membership committee and i believe they are in general agreement that is my understanding then we'll finish the testimony mr beam on come on friday as the case may be but if we do that includes today's just sort of armament committee was then in recess at the polls tomorrow so it began to do it on the plains so after this third day of being just a man suppose one thing is clear there is no longer any plan if there ever was one to attempt to save everyone ever affiliated with the white house by simply denying it all the lines that have only been rumored before and are planted around those still at the white house or the watergate break in and a subsequent cover up of the responsibility of john dean jon stewart recorded in

return as made it clear that he thinks the president and the former aides ehrlichman and haldeman other key people mcgregor has already testified about his role mitchell could provide further details but there's no indication yet as to whether you will so far the former attorney general law partner the president has said very little is repeatedly issued blanket denials even as his wife suggested but he was nominated by the white house until july and it will be interesting to watch what happens to the white house posture which now seems to be shifting towards a more aggressive stance and what is done by the special federal prosecutors who could act to limit the investigation by bringing more charges well obviously there were two major happenings at the hearings today for senator gurney's intense examination of john dean and then the rating of a strong anti dean's statement from the white house will lead now too they come one of the time and get reaction from two gentleman who wants the

entire proceedings with us today they're building all of former justice department official who is now an associate dean of georgetown university law center in washington and stephen hess a former nixon aide author and senior fellow at the brookings institution i don't on thursday senator bernie foregone doing what was your assessment of that list right now oh i thought that sounded that are formed in a very methodical and very tight and counterterrorism method of cross examination was a time when thousands would reflect both activities require for the most part yes or no answers and i think the greatest thing which for today was burning bringing that concern that the meeting with the president on september fifteen nineteen seventy two as an interpretation saying we're good chat on impressions that's a very fine job especially when you involve a potential conspiracy and

the raisins i think bernie's questioning was perhaps the most subtle and skillful up to date and it was in sharp contrast to senator graham he's questioning some of the previous witnesses of the senators questioning did not make deen out to be more important in the plot being with us too here at least it sharpened the impression of dean as a not very moral person to say the least but more important than that i think the senator tried to show that there can be interpretations on the meetings between dina and the president other than the interpretations that dean himself places on the event so i think that it was in the shadings not in the basic that then he tried to show that there can that there were changes in the dean's testimony would change the public climate for the contest

one way you having fun third party source of newspaper accounts and who knows writing i've been interviewed president and there are a bunch of other factors these the sensor to investigate new unsettling as dominant backing from eyewitnesses witness chair and i am i don't have a reason why did these days there's a new sarah koenig and i think he's going to the eurozone's third was just a note that was a mistake it was certainly a both barrels

follicle counterattack if i've ever heard one valley contains the toughest language that we've heard in the senate committee room the white house charged that the principal actor in the watergate cover up the coauthor with many of the original million dollar watergate plan that he was the most active participant in the cover much of that in the cover up and that he was perfectly situated to be the mastermind of the white house's position as now all roads lead to the natural i'm michel and michel aoun and my readers maybe was serving with the primary mitchell passed over the patrons site maps waiting for another day but this may be a very dubious strategy because the nixon white house is known as a place where a tremendous powers are not delegated to people who are not in the inner circle and here we have dean who was on the white house staff for

your half before he even had a discussion with his boss the president clearly he was not an inside and so i think the question becomes well there's a very strident attack number and of course what they use like i've got a hunch that john dean is believable only a rapper he replaced grocery prices and football as a major subjects of personal debate across this land if you've been watching this right now with someone else a lot of the similar crime you may already know you know you know exactly what i'm talking about although there could be divided into two classes of people those who think john wesley being the third is telling the truth and those who think he's in line for his take all of our decisions yours and mine and everybody else's will be based on our impressions of his abilities as a witness his manner his honesty and his personality his tenacity and his performance and withstanding tough cross examination so senator graham has been on the first of money that are bound to

come in this form and many many others i've actually had syrian some court room or a congressional committee you this room are some other ones were probably make some kind of official that un officially were all involved in the riot and that sense the arguments among ourselves the jury will probably go on in restaurants in the cocktail parties and at the dinner table in this country for days and weeks and months and possibly even years to come it's incredible staggering and sobering to think about right now even with this very very late hour or are a big deal in the uk and joe moore thank you and goodnight from washington you've been watching gavel to gavel videotape coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities as coverage is made possible by grounds for special events coverage from the corporation for public broadcasting and the ford foundation and has been a production of unpacked a division of the greater washington educational

telecommunications association you're well man news to

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