1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-31; Part 3 of 7

ms bienvenue well and we are not concerned about the committee to reelect president in the business in a way that might embarrass the president united states and i thought that the committee was going to conduct its business in a way that would embarrass the president i would have raised the question are analysts question unofficial do you believe as banning political campaign for the defense of the president i don't know and i don't know what it depends on the circumstances of the situation the circumstances and the situation i don't know that i can make a judgment on that i think again i don't know through yet what the circumstances actually aren't what was done and for what purpose it's very clear that there is an enormous embarrassment as a result of the overall situation

now going into the you have to think that a meeting of publicity that you've already testified through and i think you've referred fact that this meeting with the president of the idea that what their testimony on that and i think the statement is quite simply done that by the committee somewhat concerning taxes testimony was a statement was that you reviewed these days and the un says that as the states actually and it's very much alive the true but this year that is directed not not talking about dealing with the ideas that's correct at the meetings september fifteenth i did listen to and july this year now wilmore the village will be for the people who initiated very well for

your listening to that tape i'm not sure whether whether i did or whether the president didn't a message to me but it was one where the other on the basis of that time it ended up they did that i should listen to him and give him the report goes to expand that you know when you actually see that we're well into law it was i was here this was a move to california and i came back to washington for a several day period that i believe was july ninth tenth and a lover or a possible in that time that would've been very matter how you're going to get there's no question that they are

now it doesn't form of evidence that it was a real it was what was the extent of the war or physical or surreal so the regular tape runs a reel in a box you listen to this year all that's correct here and while that's correct he was delivered to you and it was delivered to me the european guest office that i was using what reason i was back here was to spend some time reviewing those and file so i can take out and those are many i'll be up in the attic and i was over there they provided me with an office to work and when i was in the final and the papers delivered to be at that office was it's

big not sure that i had already heard as i indicated the march twenty first a president as he has said had already listened to some of the other tapes this was a tape that he had not listened to and a tape that i had not listened to and it was obviously of a meeting of considerable importance that testimony regarding which was a contradictory to vote my recollection and the present that's right the i'm not sure whether i asked her whether again i don't know which side that point came up on that there was a suggestion of listening to some other states also that i did not do while because they concern these that and

also the president have not reviewed and that i had not reviewed of course was i was the only march twenty first time that they were meetings in which i was not present at all and i made the decision myself that i would not be appropriate for me to be the position of listening to tapes of these meetings listen to like that that was present that a substantial portion of it to listen to the pulpit that's right and you didn't believe it they're hearing i mean you put in an accessible way that through the conversation i don't know that that's the case mr there's

a it the report that the president asked me to review of hers i would have had access to that review yes i would not have had access on my own authority to anything if you really want to believe that he would not have been shown at the meeting with mr dean on november twenty or the president would rescind the president on march thirty one i was one person i have no reason to believe that it would have been given access or that i would not i don't know this was the duty of the office and it to get a view on how that or you listen to allow that we're about to return to the oatmeal yes you make no yes of that

did you retrain the ones i retain them at that time and then turn them over the president later no i did not general i reported the general content are let's say i conform to the president in the end i believe mr bizarre california's conservation the presidents and my recollection of that meeting or our recollection that yesterday's testimony was inaccurate regarding

that meeting that our recollection was correct his testimony was an actor i did not report any detail on to visitors by telephone you know when you return to most of his artwork for transmission to the press and it really i think was to live together and live in someone else on the present huge but not in a land where you only return it steve dahl was the man by whom i threw my apartment at every turn he was very man in charge of this thing every time he was their vegetable replace mr butterfield in that role and then in the office of mr butterfield occupied mr butterfield left the white house and the struggle was fully aware of this operation than

we do and it was he was as mr butterfield indicated there were there were many people who knew about this in the end mr mosley was one man on this that we know about all of this or that it made my way to meet the president of this report will not make you make any regrettable only by turning the notes over time i did not expand on that now this committee it is innocent civilians no

security in my custody and the geneva listen to for the president report back to the president which i don't view having an answer at all sir subpoenas are issued people have such things although that on them and their criteria in la these days that's been a trend that people live in i was not aware that i was under the search obligation press council of the bison is that as to whether what's that thing and so when they know that his committee will wear is assuming the savannas of that you have the piano something on the on the portland maine

all materials in our intro we have any partisan because they did not deserve here is this agreement may second twenty sixteen you know he says and when this thing to do even in the united states i liked it because it is my understanding

that the issue and controversy is not whether the witness to appear before the committee which i think there is until it released this year this return in my work now are suggesting one more selection of the other but there's a substantial difference between the continuing nature of the responsibility of a witness to appear anticipated because they can produce certain documents on a given day and our people are but i really recommend it before the committee does which subjects were outdated shortbread public television's coverage of the senate watergate hearings will continue after offer station identification on average coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service by the member stations of pbs a public broadcasting service it's

been fb group and that continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential

campaign activities you again correspondent jim lehrer as we go back to that hearing city council that she's about vast mr hall i'm all about his role in the cost of means now wait that's because i'm not sure i understand what you'd be that there was an issue of every year and the first time you heard that right there was a discussion are concerned about getting infected are considered

by many american presidents to give a thorough search for specific recollection i have any reference to clemency in this context was in march of this year we started there was i think some reference to to clemency are two promises of clemency earlier in an address allegations are or other discussion but i don't recall any you're referring to internal discussions the issue of women say there was a man until it was raised as a as a point in reporting to the president january nineteen seventy three you know reference to wear any issue i don't recall any such that you're referring to the discussion that other people had regarding regarding on sovereign i get here about

wilson's contacts or communication with hundred or i don't believe so but that's not what you like that it's hard to sort out why you want to do that at all you're welcome in a meeting with the president yesterday he had already raised with the president before i came into the meeting but it was i should say just been raised that he had obviously reported on to the president before i came into the meeting when i came in the meeting it was again as first lady you're wearing a hospital room with viral transmission

of the thought that mr dean says it and that's true and i don't believe i don't believe he said that when i was in the march twenty years that he told me that in the phone call of march twenty six when he spun out to be quite a long recitation of various problem areas one of them being blackmailed question that you get into the money and then when he was a candidate that is big they don't quite have the united states do quite sixty and

transfer that the things that the money he testified that he reported to be the man the un's development in december nineteen seventy do you recall those are now moving on to the look of the media coverage and the law it is being given up as best minds was stated that like family that a lot of the meeting was for the purpose of developing utilitarian tactics and the other efforts to prevent this committee even possible well i i don't i don't recall mr owen say that i certainly don't recall any discussion of preventing a committee from holding hearings i do recall a great deal of

discussion regarding how to deal with the committee's hearings and as i have covered in my statement i have some areas of concern the economy's doing oil the worker asks why that would be a basis for this committee i read his testimony given day to that effect i as i said in my statement i don't recall any discussion of money at the low cost of heating and i can absolutely certain that if there were any such discussion it would have had to have been an incident one because while i was in another meaning to some extent i didn't miss any major portion of the meeting

and no different than a major discussion i mean i wouldn't call it all that's a meeting that will be a question of evaluating the various members of this committee and a possible to have some impact on selecting menotti yes there was some discussion and was there any implementation of all i don't know that there was a third major well i have a feeling that that that was the disc as far as minority cause of france's was after the fact that the guard even selected thank you he would say yes i covered those one by one and white detail and minds that was that they were that

follow i don't believe it was a in any event that happens subsequent to another that it is in some degree maybe a volunteer event that i don't i don't think this was a silly designers of all of nasa now there's a lot of you here in the action of that law were good law and that at that meeting the faithful everything about the watergate matter and in the event that they would be committing perjury you you're going to record as the bunny yes right now you recall meeting with her and give you that information as i cover in considerable detail a mistake because i do not recall certainly and that i'm

sure you recall or a parent evening of the day to give his testimony and my inability to you so about that in my mind at that time i asked his staff if oh you could provide the fight with it more information as to women and what our garden and the nsa have it and that might be helpful in trying to put the question this way without you had a meeting in general do you think

let's take the first time during a party and i was raising the question of eight because i was trying to hang on i didn't meet with them on a certain date i was asking for the data he feels we met with me in order that i could check back and see whether there was any way on the second point to be younger make these states that have this information as i said in my statement categorically did not he did not in january and he did not in february at the meeting we don't want the reporting and he did not on march second at the meeting we're at that are now yeah yeah thank you i

like that you didn't listen to that they happen to get is this is that if the bill as you did you did you go to have to get at why the president as we listen to the tape of the report to him on the content specifically on big questions the year in his mind i know i got a plate also from stable i listened to it in my office at the animal and even to my office i don't know i don't believe so other than the president as i have indicated that was very much involved in trying to uncover the watergate it was doing daily i think meeting daily with the system attorney general peterson who was in charge of the case of the

justice department and he was spending a considerable amount of time and thought on matters related to what i think about that means it was the media that means immediate with john dean had supposedly laid out to him all the watergate well now to the point where on april fourteenth given him his theory of the watergate based on those interviews that he set a minimum fifteen the attorney general and an assistant attorney general have given him there reports based on the interviews that the prosecuting attorneys have had with his three d printer and a quite a bit of information yes yes it was it was after the animals they

enable seventeen i don't always open and i'm sure you have any role in the preparation that they didn't send a lot of that i didn't normally have normal proportions did you have any other you take it with anyone really want the people the white house of the system and during that time he was here they'd rather not going to rescue to read that in a general sense regarding the operation of it yes i think he was wrong i'm not sure it was all put into

effect on the same day i think some parts weren't were an adult leaders i think that the nature of the operation of it was accurate and i'm david greene you knew yourself to reset meeting was the only time that you ask why you're at the white house to look at first a yes and i think because the march twenty first was the one we're john dean hat and some some details spelled out specifics regarding the watergate bit earlier meetings were on other subjects mr savage which is what the president and they listened i'll present it would be about your name on it certainly don't we go

the development really what your testimony is that you were not involve anyway integrated not getting information and again you know but any activities which all other witnesses that the pipes were some of the plot of a coverup major leaguer that burden although you might be used for defense fund the better whether you are an end of this was improper or illegal whopper or they become necessary for you to resign your position as the second narrative that the president that i think i just heard that in my statement that became necessary or at least in my view the game harper

wanted to do so because i'm a particular the latter two weeks of april the intensity charges and the implications really are the watergate hearings by the allegations made feeling expressed the president to the white house and on sort of stuff that was was building up to a very heavy crescendo and the necessity of that become apparent that i was going to have to refer to appear before the grand jury give them as much information as i could and

as these things came to a point it became obvious it's not hard to determine that i was not able to carry out my regular duties effectively i was concentrating a great deal of time on the things that were coming up a day in relation to watergate and the operations of the white house and the office of the president it's such that i thought it was very damaging to the operation of the office for for anybody in the sensitive position that i was to be distracted at all and i had been distracted for some time and i was very concerned about it proper way for me to deal with that a distraction was either to take a leave of absence until that i was clear about where to resign my position and get better clear it up to devote my time and attention to doing and after this question of these two alternatives and i said that in my resignation

on how long after april thirtieth when you did that did you maintain an officer at the white house i used the office that that it had occupied for some days after that and then substitute a replacement so the replacement was designated for my position and that was only a matter of several days i think and i heard that that's it who believe in my office i thought that was symbolically important and the use of animal now to the opposite that you weren't continue to visit and the white house to maintain office space their anger after i didn't maintain office space i did continue to visit the white house not on a regular basis but i you can do this for several reasons over stayed at the position that i had

there was a focal point for a lot of things and it was not the kind of situation where you could announce on monday that you're resigning and walk away and have everything take care of itself i spent considerable time trying to be of assistance to others in the white house and to my successor in particular my abilities and to have to work with them on that i also spent some time at that time reviewing my nose that whereby there is i'm a republican and put under the secret service when that request i'll be at the president has indicated that there may be certain papers if you could describe in a position to turn over what would you be willing to look at some of the papers that relate your

involvement in a spirited i'm your relationship and it says the committee in identifying those papers that made it one of the strike then for the president in a request to see them it certainly willing to pursue the appropriateness of that i'm not sure well what's involved in that request for counsel the press but last fall he's a comedian consequently lead as it

was within i think it was something that the law i think of a file or maple and media remains economic toll not require all these men of course ms bell customers were told it was sometime during the period that i was

here a week ago thank you well i think the system i think

they are as the german i don't understand it two things i don't know it's big thank you thank you

and i said you said that he used to work and make sure the complaint of those those words to use those forces that's the

losing cities quote looking at the government level mean foreign investment while you indicate mike leigh played live loyalties well tomorrow morning i have no time believed that there was cia involvement

or cia exposure and i was not operating as a principle in this matter on the basis of any belief that i know what instigated the start of the process that led to this meeting was a report to me by mr john being on either late evening of the twenty seconds or early the morning of the twenty thirteen that and his communications with with the fbi the fbi was concern as to whether there might be some cia involvement or whether their investigation was in danger of impinging on uncompromising any cia activities it it was mr gene first brought the subject of the idea i have never discuss the subject of mr gray i didn't hurt that they had not set up and turn on

the heat yesterday he said that answer well why do you have that it was brutal it was not a street yesterday reported estimate said there is this concern and i believe that he set i think we unintelligible waters get over and we're gonna work this out with with pat gray in any event when i met with the president that morning as was my custom i have a number of items to go through with the vote that come to my attention or that he had requested to do something about that i was reporting back to one of those items was this report from been the suggestion i believe a suggestion from the liberty acts of communication set up between two agencies and the president in response or reaction to my given this information said very quickly

and this is this was not ok major official edict by the president united states signed on parchment paper this was very fast conversation or fast i don't have a series of islands in a conversation when the president said you know and get together with with thousand dollars and made sure that they coordinate with the fbi have wars over and talk a great man be sure that there isn't any problem also find out if the cia was in the bar and find out if the cia has any concern about the bay of pigs question being re race because of the fact that some of these people were i have been involved in the bay of pigs back to cia and trying to also to cover the point that they're that he had some concern the president about the possibility of the investigation of watergate the extended beyond watergate itself into matters and related to watergate that covered national security years and it came about that that's probably faster because he's more

articulate and i jotted that down i did the meeting was held the afternoon of the twenty thirteen according to the president's instructions ice to understand them just lawyers at the meeting agreed that he would meet with director gray and that was the end of it as far as i was concerned my responsibility was to bring these matters to the attention director nelson and gemma watters and to request general motors to meet with pat gray that was extended lying interest in the matter of the semi every week we really want to get involved and to other possible cia and exposure that you can use a yacht there's also the question of the cia's torture investigation expanding

in the cia covert activities which was a specific what you you know what i said simon i've tried to be in this one as precise i can because there's been so much question back and forth as to what when us forces were not there was no that's right and that they respond to you yes mr helms said that there was no cia involvement in the watergate at all and that he had stolen form that for us all about the other question about other possible cia activities it might be a vehicle that they would not that in any detail now maybe the only area where there was a response to that was my interpretation of the sort of a curious response was on the cia cia problem the question of whether there was a cia problem with relation to the baby takes and i thought that mr helms jumped very rapidly and

very defensively to say that's a concern all along to get into that talk was a little different sort of reaction in the region that the common plot assertion that they're going to see it one day out that it's a low it will reduce as with his response to the year seven in order he's not completely sold know it but i wasn't concerned about whether there was or not the job that i was to carry out was to request a cia to meet with the fbi and workout facilities in a sense we were the un being the reasons that you know that the extent of my

communication with the vessels of the area to the best of my recollection was a very brief confirmation back to him but we have been meeting with orson welles and the wars was going to be meeting with her and i don't think i want any more detail on that because that we knew that the point was to get if the two of them together my responsibility as responsibility i don't specifically recall going so that i would surmise that i did it again in the same sense that i did too today it's simply sign that we don't mean there was no see i was part one it was concern that they were meeting to do with the other i i don't believe that i am

aware of it now certainly i don't believe i was aware of that at the time mark for the first conversation the first car which oh yes would you a lot more details on that for example that they not knew much more than was something different that this was legal matters with when you're welcome yes

there's an awareness testimony raised germany is that as you all over committee is not have access to the states but that's not senator or fact is no one else has had access to these days and very frankly earth not all cited a great privilege that are you know not a great constitutional lawyer but i think i understand the concept of fairness and inmates gracefully unfair that any witnesses before this committee

and testifies on the basis of something which has been given to him and to him a lot and i raise this is a point of water that i intend to raise not only the march twenty first meeting fifteen that this committee's should not hear from this particular witness information which has been slowing according to him and which has been denied anyone else in the united states we don't my pleasure this is now

well no thank you and then this is now and just in the way coverage of executive privilege that same town and then a concern that it will rule this and i said i have a film about the president of the united states not in this committee that

they made and this was a quote allow this rule of the best albums can be receiving and this has been well and it was the third person this is my concern constitutional confrontation there was always a possibility the citizens of this country to be denied their rights in the sixth amendment of the constitution by the president united states specifically the right to witnesses to prove

their innocence or guilt as the case may be and here we have a case very very clearly and when asked what was always my concern this information the information contained in those days you wanted to organizers said i feel strongly about it i think surely of the fact that this committee has taken a position on certain litigation over the availability of the tape in response to

subpoenas speaks for itself like to have some concern as i did when i first read mr coleman statement about the work this information this committee when this committee's of all of the science of that and the chairman of that strange situation than that mr we in a position where we probably have no other alternative except you only objection and to director witnessed answer would you give that the abandoned today's testimony and yesterday it seems to me that the forces that and motion levels inexorably ms

he was a detention center workers concern and it's a central division find that all weekend as the patients that to the committee colleague convicted we have an update now it's even in the movie thank you

renee ministers and no i didn't and i think he is as in whole conversations they contain communism that with the perspectives and motivations with him to and different ways let's go the

new album thank you great information ms benton county as the committee members take time for little cooling off and some lunch we're going to take pause public television's coverage of the senate hearings we'll continue after a break for station identification on a bridge to coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service by the member stations of pbs a public

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